{"account": null, "authorFlair": {"t5_2fwo": {"my_beer": null, "JoaoEB": null, "joelangeway": null, "dethswatch": null, "BlazeBigBang": null, "GuyWithLag": null, "GayMakeAndModel": null, "CanvasFanatic": null, "BitcoinOperatedGirl": null, "[deleted]": null, "Zardotab": null, "mjbmitch": null, "Objective_Badger007": null, "nerd4code": null, "pjmlp": null, "bitec0de": null, "egportal2002": null, "fractalife": null, "-grok": null, "g3etwqb-uh8yaw07k": null, "SwiftOneSpeaks": null, "7952": null, "Oblivious122": null, "phexc": null, "TryingT0Wr1t3": null, "yaky-dev": null, "jtinz": null, "__helix__": null, "exjackly": null, "PoeT8r": null, "Bjorkbat": null, "matthieum": null, "voronaam": null, "reddit_ro2": null, "Tortuguita_tech": null, "morpowababy": null, "gimpwiz": null, "lleti": null, "Separate_Paper_1412": null, "iwillforgetthisusern": null, "Exotic-Sale-3003": null, "Kautsu-Gamer": null, "stereoagnostic": null, "dudeman209": null, "jl2352": null, "Breaking-Away": null, "wardrox": null, "_Pho_": null, "R0b0tJesus": null, "MagicWishMonkey": null, "SpudsRacer": null, "_predator_": null, "ZirePhiinix": null, "Feriluce": null, "fripletister": null, "thejamibu": null, "coverslide": null, "jason_at_plasmic": null, "WuPaulTangClan": null, "guaranteednotabot": null, "C_Pala": null, "NineThreeFour1": null, "winky9827": null, "Drakeskywing": null, "mycall": null, "dakkeh": null, "Uristqwerty": null, "red_planet_smasher": null, "larztopia": null, "gulyman": null, "def-not-elons-alt": null, "InfiniteMonorail": null, "Chemoralora": null, "itsdr00": null, "svish": null, "LessonStudio": null, "IskaneOnReddit": null, "hornless_inc": null, "Sweet_Television2685": null, "13steinj": null, "Sauermachtlustig84": null, "BigHandLittleSlap": null, "FatStoic": null, "brianly": null, "ponchoboy": null, "RiftHunter4": null, "Alan_Shutko": null, "_luci": null, "joshguy1425": null, "dimon222": null, "wizdomeleven": null, "synkronize": null, "DoubleVoidPointer": null, "davl3232": null, "reallyserious": null, "darkapplepolisher": null, "chesterriley": null, "nelmaven": null, "dregan": null, "lykwydchykyn": null, "thetoigo": null, "Ok-Hunter-7702": null, "lt_Matthew": null, "Lifecycle_Software": null, "toooskies": null, "RedPandaDan": null, "TerryC_IndieGameDev": null}}, "commentLists": {"t3_1i9mt78": {"head": {"id": "t1_m93blxx", "type": "comment"}, "tail": {"id": "t1_m94w10l", "type": "comment"}}}, "comments": {"t1_m93blxx": {"author": "my_beer", "authorId": "t2_36smhl7", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737814413.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93blxx", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93l1b1", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93blxx/", "prev": null, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 397, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Listen to your 'old' developers, we've been here at least once before.  The first wave of 'low-code'/'visual programming'/'anyone can code' that I remember was in the late 1990s to early 2000s.  IIRC this mixed into some proto/early ESBs and looked great, at first, but rapidly became a massive integration car crash.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Listen to your &#39;old&#39; developers, we&#39;ve been here at least once before.  The first wave of &#39;low-code&#39;/&#39;visual programming&#39;/&#39;anyone can code&#39; that I remember was in the late 1990s to early 2000s.  IIRC this mixed into some proto/early ESBs and looked great, at first, but rapidly became a massive integration car crash.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93l1b1": {"author": "JoaoEB", "authorId": "t2_4wzqo", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817707.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93l1b1", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93rh0f", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93l1b1/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93blxx", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 112, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I'm pretty sure COBOL was created so normal users could program.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I&#39;m pretty sure COBOL was created so normal users could program.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93rh0f": {"author": "joelangeway", "authorId": "t2_4rrp2", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819734.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93rh0f", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9405th", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93l1b1", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93rh0f/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93l1b1", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 101, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "The claim COBOL made was that managers would be able to read programs. No one ever believed that in practice. They ought to be forgiven for thinking that though, being that they were inventing the concept of high level programming languages at the time.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>The claim COBOL made was that managers would be able to read programs. No one ever believed that in practice. They ought to be forgiven for thinking that though, being that they were inventing the concept of high level programming languages at the time.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9405th": {"author": "dethswatch", "authorId": "t2_3enro", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737822277.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9405th", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95jdio", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93l1b1", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9405th/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93rh0f", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 12, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "and SQL for queries", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>and SQL for queries</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95jdio": {"author": "BlazeBigBang", "authorId": "t2_g4ok7", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737838361.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95jdio", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95kdfg", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9405th", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95jdio/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9405th", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 13, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Tbf all of the Product Managers I ever had to work with in the company I'm at have all been more than capable of querying the datalake with SQL. Mind you this is just for them to crunch some numbers, they obviously aren't trying to make the best, most performant query, but it's serviceable.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Tbf all of the Product Managers I ever had to work with in the company I&#39;m at have all been more than capable of querying the datalake with SQL. Mind you this is just for them to crunch some numbers, they obviously aren&#39;t trying to make the best, most performant query, but it&#39;s serviceable.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95kdfg": {"author": "dethswatch", "authorId": "t2_3enro", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737838664.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95kdfg", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9fbz9k", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95jdio", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95kdfg/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95jdio", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 5, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "sure, it definitely makes it easier, but it's not like you can sit a person with only excel experience down and get them to understand why a groupby is required in 5 minutes.\n\nI've had \"Financial Analysts\" who couldn't be arsed to learn anything but excel (and its sorting oopsies that resulted in \"emergies of missing revenue\") and bus. analysts who can't quite understand why x=null never gets what they want.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>sure, it definitely makes it easier, but it&#39;s not like you can sit a person with only excel experience down and get them to understand why a groupby is required in 5 minutes.</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;ve had &quot;Financial Analysts&quot; who couldn&#39;t be arsed to learn anything but excel (and its sorting oopsies that resulted in &quot;emergies of missing revenue&quot;) and bus. analysts who can&#39;t quite understand why x=null never gets what they want.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9fbz9k": {"author": "GuyWithLag", "authorId": "t2_9wq6", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737969445.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9fbz9k", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9g6d7z", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95kdfg", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9fbz9k/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95kdfg", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My man, you never heard about Pivot Tables? Most of the sheet-slingers would _love_ to get a query language like SQL into Excel, and they'd do much more complex queries than you can imagine.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My man, you never heard about Pivot Tables? Most of the sheet-slingers would <em>love</em> to get a query language like SQL into Excel, and they&#39;d do much more complex queries than you can imagine.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9g6d7z": {"author": "dethswatch", "authorId": "t2_3enro", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737984913.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9g6d7z", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9b4ag3", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9fbz9k", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9g6d7z/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9fbz9k", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "yeah, I've seen this movie. It often ends with \"why is this team doing that?\"", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>yeah, I&#39;ve seen this movie. It often ends with &quot;why is this team doing that?&quot;</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9b4ag3": {"author": "GayMakeAndModel", "authorId": "t2_32k7dyu", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737916713.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9b4ag3", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bdlji", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95kdfg", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9b4ag3/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9g6d7z", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Understanding database performance and concurrency/locking is FAR more difficult than busting out a SELECT statement too.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Understanding database performance and concurrency/locking is FAR more difficult than busting out a SELECT statement too.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bdlji": {"author": "dethswatch", "authorId": "t2_3enro", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737919308.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bdlji", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93lmhd", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9b4ag3", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bdlji/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9b4ag3", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "that too", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>that too</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93lmhd": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817898.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93lmhd", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93otjb", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93l1b1", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93lmhd/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bdlji", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 42, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "C was created so normal users could program.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>C was created so normal users could program.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93otjb": {"author": "BitcoinOperatedGirl", "authorId": "t2_g34rl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737818912.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93otjb", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93txog", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lmhd", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93otjb/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93lmhd", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 71, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "C was created to write a portable UNIX.\n\nBASIC was created so normal users could program...", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>C was created to write a portable UNIX.</p>\n\n<p>BASIC was created so normal users could program...</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93txog": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737820459.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": "user", "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1738769959.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93txog", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": true, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9hz0ck", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93otjb", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93txog/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93otjb", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 24, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "[deleted]", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>[deleted]</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9hz0ck": {"author": "Zardotab", "authorId": "t2_8w6vzon", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738004055.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9hz0ck", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m961vjd", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93txog", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9hz0ck/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93txog", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "But FORTRAN is a P.I.T.A. to type in on a teletype machine.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>But FORTRAN is a P.I.T.A. to type in on a teletype machine.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m961vjd": {"author": "mjbmitch", "authorId": "t2_5z7os", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737844084.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m961vjd", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98codn", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93otjb", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m961vjd/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9hz0ck", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 4, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "C was created to make me have blood in my urine.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>C was created to make me have blood in my urine.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98codn": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737875923.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98codn", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93p7ta", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m961vjd", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98codn/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m961vjd", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "You need C to have blood in your urine? Amateur.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>You need C to have blood in your urine? Amateur.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93p7ta": {"author": "Objective_Badger007", "authorId": "t2_6l4oed2f", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819037.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93p7ta", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93r9w1", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lmhd", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93p7ta/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98codn", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 31, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Java was created so normal users could try and fail to program several times over before they could program", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Java was created so normal users could try and fail to program several times over before they could program</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93r9w1": {"author": "nerd4code", "authorId": "t2_alhoa", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819674.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93r9w1", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93rj6f", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93p7ta", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93r9w1/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93p7ta", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "What\u2019s hard about Java? There are weird bits in some of the newer versions and the reliance on dynamic allocatiom makes my teeth hurt, but it\u2019s dead easy.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>What\u2019s hard about Java? There are weird bits in some of the newer versions and the reliance on dynamic allocatiom makes my teeth hurt, but it\u2019s dead easy.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93rj6f": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819753.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93rj6f", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m996tkh", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93r9w1", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93rj6f/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93r9w1", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 17, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "> but it\u2019s dead easy\n\nThat\u2019s what\u2019s hard about it.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>but it\u2019s dead easy</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>That\u2019s what\u2019s hard about it.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m996tkh": {"author": "pjmlp", "authorId": "t2_755w5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737893855.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m996tkh", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bqgmy", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lmhd", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m996tkh/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93rj6f", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "C was created to port UNIX, high level systems programming languages predated C for about 15 years.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>C was created to port UNIX, high level systems programming languages predated C for about 15 years.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bqgmy": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737922936.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bqgmy", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9eyman", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m996tkh", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bqgmy/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m996tkh", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 4, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "This is from the first paper describing CPL, which gave rise to BCPL, upon which B was based, upon which C was based:\n\n> The object in developing CPL was to produce a language which could be used for all types of problem, numerical and non-numerical, and would allow programmers to exploit all the facilities of a large and powerful computer without having to \u201cescape\u201d into machine code.\n\nhttps://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false\n\nSo look, I accept that my off-the-cuff remark could be interpreted as a claim that C itself was immediately created to avoid writing assembly as though this has never been done before, but for what it\u2019s worth what I meant was that this was how all \u201chigher level languages\u201d were viewed at the time C was created.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>This is from the first paper describing CPL, which gave rise to BCPL, upon which B was based, upon which C was based:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n<p>The object in developing CPL was to produce a language which could be used for all types of problem, numerical and non-numerical, and would allow programmers to exploit all the facilities of a large and powerful computer without having to \u201cescape\u201d into machine code.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false\">https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false</a></p>\n\n<p>So look, I accept that my off-the-cuff remark could be interpreted as a claim that C itself was immediately created to avoid writing assembly as though this has never been done before, but for what it\u2019s worth what I meant was that this was how all \u201chigher level languages\u201d were viewed at the time C was created.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9eyman": {"author": "pjmlp", "authorId": "t2_755w5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737961270.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9eyman", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93quva", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9bqgmy", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9eyman/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bqgmy", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 0, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "You could also have learned a bit reading about JOVIAL from 1958, ESPOL from 1961, PL/I from 1964,...", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>You could also have learned a bit reading about JOVIAL from 1958, ESPOL from 1961, PL/I from 1964,...</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93quva": {"author": "nerd4code", "authorId": "t2_alhoa", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819545.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93quva", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93rfp6", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lmhd", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93quva/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9eyman", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Very much no.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Very much no.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93rfp6": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819723.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93rfp6", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98ooxj", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93quva", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93rfp6/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93quva", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": -1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Okay but this is literally the reason.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Okay but this is literally the reason.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98ooxj": {"author": "bitec0de", "authorId": "t2_rflug6lk", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737883156.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98ooxj", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bqdy6", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93rfp6", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98ooxj/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93rfp6", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 4, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It /really/ wasn't -- C was a portable assembler abstraction for systems programmers to write UNIX in. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It /really/ wasn&#39;t -- C was a portable assembler abstraction for systems programmers to write UNIX in. I&#39;m sorry, but you&#39;re just wrong</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bqdy6": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737922916.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bqdy6", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9byv3a", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m98ooxj", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bqdy6/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98ooxj", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 4, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "This is from the first paper describing CPL, which gave rise to BCPL, upon which B was based, upon which C was based:\n\n> The object in developing CPL was to produce a language which could be used for all types of problem, numerical and non-numerical, and\nwould allow programmers to exploit all the facilities\nof a large and powerful computer without having to\n\u201cescape\u201d into machine code.\n\nhttps://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false\n\nSo look, I accept that my off-the-cuff remark could be interpreted as a claim that C itself was immediately created to avoid writing assembly as though this has never been done before, but for what it\u2019s worth what I meant was that this was how all \u201chigher level languages\u201d were viewed at the time C was created.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>This is from the first paper describing CPL, which gave rise to BCPL, upon which B was based, upon which C was based:</p>\n\n<blockquote>\n<p>The object in developing CPL was to produce a language which could be used for all types of problem, numerical and non-numerical, and\nwould allow programmers to exploit all the facilities\nof a large and powerful computer without having to\n\u201cescape\u201d into machine code.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p><a href=\"https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false\">https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/6/2/134/364746?login=false</a></p>\n\n<p>So look, I accept that my off-the-cuff remark could be interpreted as a claim that C itself was immediately created to avoid writing assembly as though this has never been done before, but for what it\u2019s worth what I meant was that this was how all \u201chigher level languages\u201d were viewed at the time C was created.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9byv3a": {"author": "bitec0de", "authorId": "t2_rflug6lk", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737925219.0, "depth": 7, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9byv3a", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bzrm4", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9bqdy6", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9byv3a/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bqdy6", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It seemed more like you were claiming C was meant for end users / non-computer-specialists in general to use (like what i understand Lisp, Fortran, APL or COBOL were historically intended for), sorry for being rude!\n\nI'd never read about BCPL before, looks like it had an almost bytecode-like split between the compiler and runtime, which for some reason (Java) i think of as a very nineties idea? Thanks for the history prompt", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It seemed more like you were claiming C was meant for end users / non-computer-specialists in general to use (like what i understand Lisp, Fortran, APL or COBOL were historically intended for), sorry for being rude!</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;d never read about BCPL before, looks like it had an almost bytecode-like split between the compiler and runtime, which for some reason (Java) i think of as a very nineties idea? Thanks for the history prompt</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bzrm4": {"author": "CanvasFanatic", "authorId": "t2_j96kdhu4", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737925464.0, "depth": 8, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bzrm4", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9c0rtx", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9byv3a", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bzrm4/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9byv3a", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "What\u2019s weird is that at the time they did think of \u201chigh level\u201d languages kinda like easy mode. The first generation of such tools were called \u201cautocoders.\u201d It was considered something of an accomplishment to demonstrate they could consistently produce suitable machine code.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>What\u2019s weird is that at the time they did think of \u201chigh level\u201d languages kinda like easy mode. The first generation of such tools were called \u201cautocoders.\u201d It was considered something of an accomplishment to demonstrate they could consistently produce suitable machine code.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9c0rtx": {"author": "bitec0de", "authorId": "t2_rflug6lk", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737925739.0, "depth": 9, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9c0rtx", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9hyap1", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9bzrm4", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9c0rtx/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bzrm4", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There's a Bret Victor talk (\"Future of Programming\" iirc) where he mentions that originally \\*assembler\\* was seen as easy mode, the mnemonic opcodes taking you too far from the machine code level", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There&#39;s a Bret Victor talk (&quot;Future of Programming&quot; iirc) where he mentions that originally *assembler* was seen as easy mode, the mnemonic opcodes taking you too far from the machine code level</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9hyap1": {"author": "Zardotab", "authorId": "t2_8w6vzon", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738003859.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9hyap1", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93ide5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93l1b1", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9hyap1/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9c0rtx", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "In all fairness, COBOL was generally quicker to learn and faster to development biz apps in than assembler language, which was the most common alternative at the time.\n\nPeople like to dump on COBOL, but it fits its niche and has proven stable, unlike all the others driven by Fad Of The Month.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>In all fairness, COBOL was generally quicker to learn and faster to development biz apps in than assembler language, which was the most common alternative at the time.</p>\n\n<p>People like to dump on COBOL, but it fits its niche and has proven stable, unlike all the others driven by Fad Of The Month.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93ide5": {"author": "egportal2002", "authorId": "t2_t5g7", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737816817.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93ide5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93kg81", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93ide5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9hyap1", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 78, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Thinking back to SAP consultants (and others) of the 90s and aughts, in theory enterprise-wide systems are a great idea. But were there ever cases where a company began by changing their business processes to conform to what the tool did well \"out of the box\" before going down the multi-year customization rabbit holes?\n\nSame goes for the \"no/lo-code\" systems -- once you venture outside of what they offer it gets messy.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Thinking back to SAP consultants (and others) of the 90s and aughts, in theory enterprise-wide systems are a great idea. But were there ever cases where a company began by changing their business processes to conform to what the tool did well &quot;out of the box&quot; before going down the multi-year customization rabbit holes?</p>\n\n<p>Same goes for the &quot;no/lo-code&quot; systems -- once you venture outside of what they offer it gets messy.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93kg81": {"author": "fractalife", "authorId": "t2_6i0ia", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817513.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93kg81", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94jv46", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ide5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93kg81/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93ide5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 39, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I wish SAP was actually a thing of the past. \ud83d\ude1e", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I wish SAP was actually a thing of the past. \ud83d\ude1e</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94jv46": {"author": "-grok", "authorId": "t2_1xcawksl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737827924.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94jv46", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94u0mv", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kg81", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94jv46/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93kg81", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 35, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "SAP is germany's revenge for losing the war", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>SAP is germany&#39;s revenge for losing the war</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94u0mv": {"author": "fractalife", "authorId": "t2_6i0ia", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737830822.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94u0mv", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93pu1f", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94jv46", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94u0mv/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94jv46", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "LOL", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>LOL</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93pu1f": {"author": "g3etwqb-uh8yaw07k", "authorId": "t2_1c09ehqfxr", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819231.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93pu1f", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94j78k", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kg81", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93pu1f/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94u0mv", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 19, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Grtman here, everything I heard about them locally is \"everyone hates them but nobody has the courage to switch to a custom solution\".\n\nPretty sure that goes for most regions and industries,\nthe mid level managers are probably afraid of being the one to recommend a messy transition period", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Grtman here, everything I heard about them locally is &quot;everyone hates them but nobody has the courage to switch to a custom solution&quot;.</p>\n\n<p>Pretty sure that goes for most regions and industries,\nthe mid level managers are probably afraid of being the one to recommend a messy transition period</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94j78k": {"author": "SwiftOneSpeaks", "authorId": "t2_gq7la", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737827734.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94j78k", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94t5eg", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93pu1f", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94j78k/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93pu1f", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 9, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I recently learned of the \"smolweb\" movement and started to seriously question assumptions I have long had.  \n\nOff the shelf is usually better than in house, right?  Custom is attractive because of what it could be, but the reality is usually \"CRUD website made for fun\" and struggles with updates, features, and scalability.\n\nBut think about the \"enterprise\" software you encounter.  How often is it a good experience? Easy? Reliable? Cheap?  Perhaps we need a few more non- enterprise options.  If we dedicate even a solid fraction of the resources we dedicate to enterprise options, apply realistic comparisons, and focus on key priorities for the business at hand, off the shelf software won't go away, but the balance may be different.\n\nThis would involve lots of ripple effects.  Training newer devs to focus on data import/export so that there is less lock in, more than focusing on scalability first.  (Both concepts matter, but is our current balance the best?) encouraging small in house dev teams or pairs at smaller businesses rather than the current one \"tech person\" and a time spent paying for licenses that your business viability is  hitched to.   Emphasizing reliability and evolution over \"break things\" and revolution.  Building a foundation so smaller companies can honestly evaluate the capabilities of a developer instead of the \"fake the experience of an entire IT dept\" we have now. \n\nIs this a good idea? Are these changes possible? I don't know, but I've shifted from \"definitely not\" to \"I need to think about this\".  The enterprise software I've seen tends to be complicated, expensive, and a poor match for needs UNLESS the client pays a lot for both licensing and dedicated staff.  \n\nMost of my professional work for the last 15 years is gone and irrelevant, but the smaller work I did for a state government agency 20-25 years ago is still out there (crappy, lower quality work though it was), and that really makes me happy. I want to make software that people don't hate, I want to make more things easier over time, not be part of the churn of replacing one loathed \"platform\" with a different but equally loathed platform, expending money and effort to not make any real progress.  Perhaps more in house non-scalable CRUD apps are the answer instead of our current priorities.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I recently learned of the &quot;smolweb&quot; movement and started to seriously question assumptions I have long had.  </p>\n\n<p>Off the shelf is usually better than in house, right?  Custom is attractive because of what it could be, but the reality is usually &quot;CRUD website made for fun&quot; and struggles with updates, features, and scalability.</p>\n\n<p>But think about the &quot;enterprise&quot; software you encounter.  How often is it a good experience? Easy? Reliable? Cheap?  Perhaps we need a few more non- enterprise options.  If we dedicate even a solid fraction of the resources we dedicate to enterprise options, apply realistic comparisons, and focus on key priorities for the business at hand, off the shelf software won&#39;t go away, but the balance may be different.</p>\n\n<p>This would involve lots of ripple effects.  Training newer devs to focus on data import/export so that there is less lock in, more than focusing on scalability first.  (Both concepts matter, but is our current balance the best?) encouraging small in house dev teams or pairs at smaller businesses rather than the current one &quot;tech person&quot; and a time spent paying for licenses that your business viability is  hitched to.   Emphasizing reliability and evolution over &quot;break things&quot; and revolution.  Building a foundation so smaller companies can honestly evaluate the capabilities of a developer instead of the &quot;fake the experience of an entire IT dept&quot; we have now. </p>\n\n<p>Is this a good idea? Are these changes possible? I don&#39;t know, but I&#39;ve shifted from &quot;definitely not&quot; to &quot;I need to think about this&quot;.  The enterprise software I&#39;ve seen tends to be complicated, expensive, and a poor match for needs UNLESS the client pays a lot for both licensing and dedicated staff.  </p>\n\n<p>Most of my professional work for the last 15 years is gone and irrelevant, but the smaller work I did for a state government agency 20-25 years ago is still out there (crappy, lower quality work though it was), and that really makes me happy. I want to make software that people don&#39;t hate, I want to make more things easier over time, not be part of the churn of replacing one loathed &quot;platform&quot; with a different but equally loathed platform, expending money and effort to not make any real progress.  Perhaps more in house non-scalable CRUD apps are the answer instead of our current priorities.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94t5eg": {"author": "7952", "authorId": "t2_1b9pl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737830572.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94t5eg", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m956dhz", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94j78k", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94t5eg/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94j78k", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": -1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My experience with software in an enterprise is that most things would be best done using a desktop app on a single computer.  But we can't because it needs to robustly support multiple users.  So you get bogged down in a platform which then sucks  performance and flexibility out of the project. \n\nIf only we had something like SQLite that could work effectively on a shared Network drive.  Apps could avoid infrastructure altogether.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My experience with software in an enterprise is that most things would be best done using a desktop app on a single computer.  But we can&#39;t because it needs to robustly support multiple users.  So you get bogged down in a platform which then sucks  performance and flexibility out of the project. </p>\n\n<p>If only we had something like SQLite that could work effectively on a shared Network drive.  Apps could avoid infrastructure altogether.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m956dhz": {"author": "Oblivious122", "authorId": "t2_iu2oe", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737834406.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m956dhz", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m987ztp", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94t5eg", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m956dhz/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94t5eg", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 9, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "....the shared network drive IS infrastructure....", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>....the shared network drive IS infrastructure....</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m987ztp": {"author": "phexc", "authorId": "t2_ht90m", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737873296.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m987ztp", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9aaea9", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94t5eg", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m987ztp/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m956dhz", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "You just described backend software. \n\nYou cannot trust user input. So you can certainly not trust a completely user supplied database.\n\nBackend software solves this by validating the data and applying business rules to it. \n\nIt would be really easy to change your salary if everyone could just update their local database without any validation.\n\nYou're probably looking for a robust caching solution. It's not perfect and certainly not easy, but at least you can put some sanity checks in place.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>You just described backend software. </p>\n\n<p>You cannot trust user input. So you can certainly not trust a completely user supplied database.</p>\n\n<p>Backend software solves this by validating the data and applying business rules to it. </p>\n\n<p>It would be really easy to change your salary if everyone could just update their local database without any validation.</p>\n\n<p>You&#39;re probably looking for a robust caching solution. It&#39;s not perfect and certainly not easy, but at least you can put some sanity checks in place.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9aaea9": {"author": "7952", "authorId": "t2_1b9pl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737908233.0, "depth": 7, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9aaea9", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9590qa", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m987ztp", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9aaea9/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m987ztp", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "> You cannot trust user input. So you can certainly not trust a completely user supplied database.\n\nAnd yet that is exactly how a huge amount of business is done.  An excel spreadsheet that is secured by some permissions and requires some trust between a group.  Everyone knows that a well developed ERP system would be better.  Thr system they have been waiting years for.  And maybe one day that will arrive.\n\nAlso, technically data validation of does not need to be centralised.  Nor does centralisation provide absolute guarantees.\n\nBut yeah robust synchronization and caching is hard.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>You cannot trust user input. So you can certainly not trust a completely user supplied database.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>And yet that is exactly how a huge amount of business is done.  An excel spreadsheet that is secured by some permissions and requires some trust between a group.  Everyone knows that a well developed ERP system would be better.  Thr system they have been waiting years for.  And maybe one day that will arrive.</p>\n\n<p>Also, technically data validation of does not need to be centralised.  Nor does centralisation provide absolute guarantees.</p>\n\n<p>But yeah robust synchronization and caching is hard.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9590qa": {"author": "TryingT0Wr1t3", "authorId": "t2_na1ha", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737835200.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9590qa", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93ubpv", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94t5eg", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9590qa/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9aaea9", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Also there's a lot of software that has to be online and connect to databases that changes and then require the software to be kept updated but the software is only used by four people.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Also there&#39;s a lot of software that has to be online and connect to databases that changes and then require the software to be kept updated but the software is only used by four people.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93ubpv": {"author": "yaky-dev", "authorId": "t2_f0rls0b5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737820573.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93ubpv", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94uxxh", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ide5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93ubpv/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9590qa", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 10, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "That reminds me when I worked with Microsoft Dynamics NAV, a terrible ERP, all the way in late 2010s. The only reason the company used NAV at all was because they did horticulture, and NAV had a horticulture-specific add-on. But exactly as you said, the company did not use just the provided solution, adding customizations and breaking the system to the point where no user trusted it anymore.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>That reminds me when I worked with Microsoft Dynamics NAV, a terrible ERP, all the way in late 2010s. The only reason the company used NAV at all was because they did horticulture, and NAV had a horticulture-specific add-on. But exactly as you said, the company did not use just the provided solution, adding customizations and breaking the system to the point where no user trusted it anymore.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94uxxh": {"author": "jtinz", "authorId": "t2_9rjc3", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737831085.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94uxxh", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93ry79", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ide5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94uxxh/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93ubpv", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Companies usually have to restructure their processes to work with SAP. And if a company starts using SAP, they often require their parts providers to also use SAP.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Companies usually have to restructure their processes to work with SAP. And if a company starts using SAP, they often require their parts providers to also use SAP.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93ry79": {"author": "__helix__", "authorId": "t2_4ijev", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819877.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93ry79", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9gv3s0", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ide5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93ry79/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94uxxh", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My poorly caffeinated brain parsed that as lol-code.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My poorly caffeinated brain parsed that as lol-code.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9gv3s0": {"author": "exjackly", "authorId": "t2_ckj98", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737992924.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9gv3s0", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94ef2n", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ide5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9gv3s0/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93ry79", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Those few companies that did implement vanilla SAP have done well with it - at least the core system.  The advanced modules have less of a stellar track record, but also benefit from the least amount of customization.\n\nI've also been at places that are massively customized and where SAP upgrade is a forbidden phrase for good reason.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Those few companies that did implement vanilla SAP have done well with it - at least the core system.  The advanced modules have less of a stellar track record, but also benefit from the least amount of customization.</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;ve also been at places that are massively customized and where SAP upgrade is a forbidden phrase for good reason.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94ef2n": {"author": "PoeT8r", "authorId": "t2_3s9o47z8", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737826365.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94ef2n", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95xav4", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94ef2n/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9gv3s0", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 12, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "> The first wave of 'low-code'/'visual programming'/'anyone can code' that I remember was in the late 1990s to early 2000s\n\nI recall reading about end-user programming in the 1980s. There was an article about an industrial engineer at Hershey who used FOCUS 4GL on a mainframe to optimize cocoa yield. The article made a big fuss about how FOCUS 4GL allowed businesses to avoid using programmers to make useful programs.\n\nI seem to recall my uni prof made similar claims about the design goals of COBOL....", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>The first wave of &#39;low-code&#39;/&#39;visual programming&#39;/&#39;anyone can code&#39; that I remember was in the late 1990s to early 2000s</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>I recall reading about end-user programming in the 1980s. There was an article about an industrial engineer at Hershey who used FOCUS 4GL on a mainframe to optimize cocoa yield. The article made a big fuss about how FOCUS 4GL allowed businesses to avoid using programmers to make useful programs.</p>\n\n<p>I seem to recall my uni prof made similar claims about the design goals of COBOL....</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95xav4": {"author": "Bjorkbat", "authorId": "t2_5nn0q", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737842622.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95xav4", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m994xkv", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95xav4/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94ef2n", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 7, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "The persistent failure of low-code / visual code builders has led me to consider that there really might be something to expressing intent in a text-based programming language.\n\nLike, if you want to repeat something 10 times, that's arguably easier to convey in natural language vs through a programming language, but otherwise there's a lot of \"loop scenarios\" where for-loops and while-loops can potentially express things more succinctly and precisely than you could through natural language.  Expressing what you want pictographically is arguably more difficult.  Words succeed where pictures fail.\n\nIt feels like a terrible failure of imagination, but at times it really does seem like the optimum way to program is through a programming language, in a text-editor, a process that hasn't fundamentally changed in over 50 years.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>The persistent failure of low-code / visual code builders has led me to consider that there really might be something to expressing intent in a text-based programming language.</p>\n\n<p>Like, if you want to repeat something 10 times, that&#39;s arguably easier to convey in natural language vs through a programming language, but otherwise there&#39;s a lot of &quot;loop scenarios&quot; where for-loops and while-loops can potentially express things more succinctly and precisely than you could through natural language.  Expressing what you want pictographically is arguably more difficult.  Words succeed where pictures fail.</p>\n\n<p>It feels like a terrible failure of imagination, but at times it really does seem like the optimum way to program is through a programming language, in a text-editor, a process that hasn&#39;t fundamentally changed in over 50 years.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m994xkv": {"author": "matthieum", "authorId": "t2_5ij2c", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737892851.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m994xkv", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m997eb7", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95xav4", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m994xkv/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95xav4", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I've seen visual code builders with loop and functions, so I don't see a fundamental difference in expressivity.\n\nStill, text has a few advantages up its sleeve:\n\n - Text can be viewed with many a viewer -- including natively in a browser -- while visual code tend to have just the one application.\n - Text can be searched with many a viewer.\n - Text can be diffed -- even naively -- with many a tool.\n - Text can be edited with many an editor.\n - Text can be typed very quickly -- we're all used to this -- while visual code tends to emphasize mouse interactions.\n\nThe more damning thing, though, is the obsession with syntax. Junior programmers and non-programmers tend to think _way too much_ about the syntax.\n\nIn junior programmers, it manifests with new \"programming languages\" with zero original ideas, just a slightly tweaked syntax. In non-programmers, and those who wish to cater to them, we see these visual coding tools.\n\nTruth is, though, syntax doesn't matter. Ultimately syntax is just a _visual tool_ to convey the semantics, and after some getting used to it, a programmer barely thinks about the syntax.\n\nThe important programming & engineering concepts are the semantics.\n\nThe focus to improve the \"syntax\" in order to make programming more accessible is just completely off. Programming can only become more accessible by teaching programming concepts, programming design, etc...", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I&#39;ve seen visual code builders with loop and functions, so I don&#39;t see a fundamental difference in expressivity.</p>\n\n<p>Still, text has a few advantages up its sleeve:</p>\n\n<ul>\n<li>Text can be viewed with many a viewer -- including natively in a browser -- while visual code tend to have just the one application.</li>\n<li>Text can be searched with many a viewer.</li>\n<li>Text can be diffed -- even naively -- with many a tool.</li>\n<li>Text can be edited with many an editor.</li>\n<li>Text can be typed very quickly -- we&#39;re all used to this -- while visual code tends to emphasize mouse interactions.</li>\n</ul>\n\n<p>The more damning thing, though, is the obsession with syntax. Junior programmers and non-programmers tend to think <em>way too much</em> about the syntax.</p>\n\n<p>In junior programmers, it manifests with new &quot;programming languages&quot; with zero original ideas, just a slightly tweaked syntax. In non-programmers, and those who wish to cater to them, we see these visual coding tools.</p>\n\n<p>Truth is, though, syntax doesn&#39;t matter. Ultimately syntax is just a <em>visual tool</em> to convey the semantics, and after some getting used to it, a programmer barely thinks about the syntax.</p>\n\n<p>The important programming &amp; engineering concepts are the semantics.</p>\n\n<p>The focus to improve the &quot;syntax&quot; in order to make programming more accessible is just completely off. Programming can only become more accessible by teaching programming concepts, programming design, etc...</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m997eb7": {"author": "pjmlp", "authorId": "t2_755w5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737894153.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m997eb7", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9hwmsl", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m994xkv", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m997eb7/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m994xkv", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 0, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Usually where visual tooling has succeeded are domains where users don't think themselves as programmers.\n\nThe most successful ones used in EE, VFX and games, do provide good abstraction and debugging tools as well.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Usually where visual tooling has succeeded are domains where users don&#39;t think themselves as programmers.</p>\n\n<p>The most successful ones used in EE, VFX and games, do provide good abstraction and debugging tools as well.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9hwmsl": {"author": "matthieum", "authorId": "t2_5ij2c", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738003397.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9hwmsl", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9i1h1m", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m997eb7", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9hwmsl/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m997eb7", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I'm not saying they don't provide good abstractions/debugging tools.\n\nI'm saying those tools do not integrate well within a development ecosystem. For example, you don't get good visualization/diffing in Github/Gitlab by default (and perhaps ever).\n\nIn short, the visual coding experience tends to create islands/walled gardens, ever more so than specialized text-based languages.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I&#39;m not saying they don&#39;t provide good abstractions/debugging tools.</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;m saying those tools do not integrate well within a development ecosystem. For example, you don&#39;t get good visualization/diffing in Github/Gitlab by default (and perhaps ever).</p>\n\n<p>In short, the visual coding experience tends to create islands/walled gardens, ever more so than specialized text-based languages.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9i1h1m": {"author": "Zardotab", "authorId": "t2_8w6vzon", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738004743.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1738004952.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9i1h1m", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95qx3j", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95xav4", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9i1h1m/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9hwmsl", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "While there was a lot to complain about, MS-Access actually made it fairly simple to mix and match declarative, WYSIWYG, and imperative programming as needed (at least before the XML version).\n\nBut MS-Access got a bad rap because of misuse by amateurs and using it beyond its intent. For smaller group internal projects, it was the best KISS available if you avoided certain pitfalls. Amateurs usually used out-of-the-box defaults which had bad long-term consequences.\n\nThere are certain tools that seemed to have low-to-high-code pathway almost right. But then web came along and nuked sales in such tools and R&D stopped. I might make my own someday as a proof of concept, but DOM sucks the big juicy one for biz CRUD UI.\n\n**I can't wait for DOM to have a real standards competitor, it blows and sucks chunks** for many domains.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>While there was a lot to complain about, MS-Access actually made it fairly simple to mix and match declarative, WYSIWYG, and imperative programming as needed (at least before the XML version).</p>\n\n<p>But MS-Access got a bad rap because of misuse by amateurs and using it beyond its intent. For smaller group internal projects, it was the best KISS available if you avoided certain pitfalls. Amateurs usually used out-of-the-box defaults which had bad long-term consequences.</p>\n\n<p>There are certain tools that seemed to have low-to-high-code pathway almost right. But then web came along and nuked sales in such tools and R&amp;D stopped. I might make my own someday as a proof of concept, but DOM sucks the big juicy one for biz CRUD UI.</p>\n\n<p><strong>I can&#39;t wait for DOM to have a real standards competitor, it blows and sucks chunks</strong> for many domains.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95qx3j": {"author": "voronaam", "authorId": "t2_3ys46", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737840649.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95qx3j", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95zmdu", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95qx3j/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9i1h1m", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 7, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I still remember FoxPro fondly. A DB engine with a built-in language to build applications with UI. Sure that was TUI, but it had windows, buttons and anything else you need.\n\nAnd all backed by the data model already defined in the DB. Like, it was nice having a one liner to show user a table view with certain fields in it and another one liner to add an option to edit individual record with all the components properly typed and verifying their input size and other constraints.\n\n3 decades on, if I need a simple internal only admin interface to expose a couple of tables from a Database I better get ready to write hundreds of lines of glue code.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I still remember FoxPro fondly. A DB engine with a built-in language to build applications with UI. Sure that was TUI, but it had windows, buttons and anything else you need.</p>\n\n<p>And all backed by the data model already defined in the DB. Like, it was nice having a one liner to show user a table view with certain fields in it and another one liner to add an option to edit individual record with all the components properly typed and verifying their input size and other constraints.</p>\n\n<p>3 decades on, if I need a simple internal only admin interface to expose a couple of tables from a Database I better get ready to write hundreds of lines of glue code.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95zmdu": {"author": "reddit_ro2", "authorId": "t2_3113e", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737843359.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95zmdu", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m97vu0l", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95qx3j", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95zmdu/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95qx3j", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "With arcane switches and letter combinations, doing something polished was a chore. Plus, the default dbase engine over network didn't work very well. Programmed in it professionally for a few years, I was never a fan. \n\nFor your usecase any real RAD like Delphi or what the replacement for V Basic there is now is always a better choice.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>With arcane switches and letter combinations, doing something polished was a chore. Plus, the default dbase engine over network didn&#39;t work very well. Programmed in it professionally for a few years, I was never a fan. </p>\n\n<p>For your usecase any real RAD like Delphi or what the replacement for V Basic there is now is always a better choice.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m97vu0l": {"author": "voronaam", "authorId": "t2_3ys46", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737867422.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m97vu0l", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m99nn85", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95zmdu", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m97vu0l/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95zmdu", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It was a different kind of applications in my case. They were not distributed, there was no application security, no big data. There was a client with a single PC that was running the application and anybody with access to that PC had access to the data.\n\nOn one hand I miss those times. On the other hand I would not write this way now. I actually got contacted by one of the clients from that time. I'd say it was 2004-ish client and I wrote a Delphi/Interbase application for them. Around 2020 they contacted me and asked if I can help them to restore the application because the HDD in their single PC died. I said no. They found the backup and to the best of my knowledge are using that small app to this day.\n\nThat is what I miss - simpler solutions that work for simple use cases for a long time.\n\nP.S. In that case the Interbase licence was something like 75% of the budget. I am pretty sure they switched to a pirated version at some point as there is pretty low chance they keep finding a way to update the license.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It was a different kind of applications in my case. They were not distributed, there was no application security, no big data. There was a client with a single PC that was running the application and anybody with access to that PC had access to the data.</p>\n\n<p>On one hand I miss those times. On the other hand I would not write this way now. I actually got contacted by one of the clients from that time. I&#39;d say it was 2004-ish client and I wrote a Delphi/Interbase application for them. Around 2020 they contacted me and asked if I can help them to restore the application because the HDD in their single PC died. I said no. They found the backup and to the best of my knowledge are using that small app to this day.</p>\n\n<p>That is what I miss - simpler solutions that work for simple use cases for a long time.</p>\n\n<p>P.S. In that case the Interbase licence was something like 75% of the budget. I am pretty sure they switched to a pirated version at some point as there is pretty low chance they keep finding a way to update the license.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m99nn85": {"author": "reddit_ro2", "authorId": "t2_3113e", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737901011.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m99nn85", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bkwye", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m97vu0l", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m99nn85/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m97vu0l", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "FYI Firebird (https://www.firebirdsql.org/) free and open source, a fork of Interbase, completely interchangeable with Interbase, was and still is perfect for this purpose.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>FYI Firebird (<a href=\"https://www.firebirdsql.org/\">https://www.firebirdsql.org/</a>) free and open source, a fork of Interbase, completely interchangeable with Interbase, was and still is perfect for this purpose.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bkwye": {"author": "Tortuguita_tech", "authorId": "t2_19dhbxci74", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737921373.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bkwye", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93q6od", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95qx3j", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bkwye/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m99nn85", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I remember FoxPro. It was great tool for small-medium projects. For use case you\u2019ve described, I now use django admin.  Boilerplate code is reduced to bare minimum, you just define data model and the rest goes almost out of the box.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I remember FoxPro. It was great tool for small-medium projects. For use case you\u2019ve described, I now use django admin.  Boilerplate code is reduced to bare minimum, you just define data model and the rest goes almost out of the box.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93q6od": {"author": "morpowababy", "authorId": "t2_q9c0o6ju", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819339.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93q6od", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94f5r9", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93q6od/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bkwye", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 11, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I graduated in 2018 and was excited to work on a literal spaceship flight software. Boy was I disappointed to find what they were using. Some of that insanely costly visual coding software, I'm guessing so they felt like they could hire systems engineers to be software engineers.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I graduated in 2018 and was excited to work on a literal spaceship flight software. Boy was I disappointed to find what they were using. Some of that insanely costly visual coding software, I&#39;m guessing so they felt like they could hire systems engineers to be software engineers.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94f5r9": {"author": "my_beer", "authorId": "t2_36smhl7", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737826575.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94f5r9", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m950emg", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93q6od", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94f5r9/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93q6od", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 7, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My actual first experience with this stuff was trying to use visual programming system to control lasers in a lab environment some time in the 1990s.  Absolute pain and rapidly went back to the actual code based version.....  \n  I just did a quick check and am entertained that exactly the same debate seems to still be going on today (LabView vs LabWindows)", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My actual first experience with this stuff was trying to use visual programming system to control lasers in a lab environment some time in the 1990s.  Absolute pain and rapidly went back to the actual code based version.....<br/>\n  I just did a quick check and am entertained that exactly the same debate seems to still be going on today (LabView vs LabWindows)</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m950emg": {"author": "gimpwiz", "authorId": "t2_4aaq1", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737832662.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m950emg", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93qfet", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93q6od", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m950emg/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94f5r9", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Labview sure is the devil.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Labview sure is the devil.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93qfet": {"author": "lleti", "authorId": "t2_3oeqa", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819414.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93qfet", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98aoys", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93qfet/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m950emg", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 14, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I mean, it's much different nowadays. My first experience with \"anyone can code\" was in the early 2000s with flash/actionscript. And sure enough, I found it much easier to pick up as work with as a kid in my young teens with little to no dev experience.\n\nGranted I had to ask a lot of dumb questions on flash dev boards, but anyway.\n\nNowadays I've friends with zero dev experience \"writing apps\" with claude/gpt. To the point of debugging them. It's like they've just learned to code in a different (granted, more limiting) way.\n\nThey couldn't do this with gpt3. Even the original gpt4 wasn't quite good enough. Now with claude and o1, tbh it's a very different story.\n\nCode is still pretty slop, but much less slop than it was 2 years ago. Definitely a lot better than any 1st or 2nd year CS student code.\n\nI think it's very foolish to try compare this to VB or any of the \"no-code\" tools we had back in the day.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I mean, it&#39;s much different nowadays. My first experience with &quot;anyone can code&quot; was in the early 2000s with flash/actionscript. And sure enough, I found it much easier to pick up as work with as a kid in my young teens with little to no dev experience.</p>\n\n<p>Granted I had to ask a lot of dumb questions on flash dev boards, but anyway.</p>\n\n<p>Nowadays I&#39;ve friends with zero dev experience &quot;writing apps&quot; with claude/gpt. To the point of debugging them. It&#39;s like they&#39;ve just learned to code in a different (granted, more limiting) way.</p>\n\n<p>They couldn&#39;t do this with gpt3. Even the original gpt4 wasn&#39;t quite good enough. Now with claude and o1, tbh it&#39;s a very different story.</p>\n\n<p>Code is still pretty slop, but much less slop than it was 2 years ago. Definitely a lot better than any 1st or 2nd year CS student code.</p>\n\n<p>I think it&#39;s very foolish to try compare this to VB or any of the &quot;no-code&quot; tools we had back in the day.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98aoys": {"author": "Separate_Paper_1412", "authorId": "t2_llb1rxlq", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737874785.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98aoys", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m946k7q", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93qfet", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98aoys/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93qfet", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It sometimes writes optimal solutions other times it makes them overly complicated and without meeting spec, for like generating arrays of numbers based off an equation (forgot which one) in javascript and scheduling algorithms\u00a0", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It sometimes writes optimal solutions other times it makes them overly complicated and without meeting spec, for like generating arrays of numbers based off an equation (forgot which one) in javascript and scheduling algorithms\u00a0</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m946k7q": {"author": "iwillforgetthisusern", "authorId": "t2_a62mj", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737824092.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m946k7q", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94j1bm", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93qfet", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m946k7q/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98aoys", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I\u2019m interested in coding with gpts, can you tell me more about how they\u2019re doing that? Are they just chatting with these gpts or are they integrated to their ide?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I\u2019m interested in coding with gpts, can you tell me more about how they\u2019re doing that? Are they just chatting with these gpts or are they integrated to their ide?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94j1bm": {"author": "Exotic-Sale-3003", "authorId": "t2_17d4qme0jl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737827686.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94j1bm", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98at8p", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m946k7q", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94j1bm/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m946k7q", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Cursor & Devin are two products you can look at to get an idea.\u00a0", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Cursor &amp; Devin are two products you can look at to get an idea.\u00a0</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98at8p": {"author": "Separate_Paper_1412", "authorId": "t2_llb1rxlq", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737874851.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98at8p", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9abw1s", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m946k7q", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98at8p/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94j1bm", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Most people I have seen chat with chatGPT they don't use cursor nor copilot\u00a0", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Most people I have seen chat with chatGPT they don&#39;t use cursor nor copilot\u00a0</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9abw1s": {"author": "Kautsu-Gamer", "authorId": "t2_9krvl6im", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737908670.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9abw1s", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9hvt30", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9abw1s/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98at8p", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "The MS PowerApps reminds late 90s shitty UI design tools. The style palette has 1 color with lighter and darker shades, no change of default foreground or background..", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>The MS PowerApps reminds late 90s shitty UI design tools. The style palette has 1 color with lighter and darker shades, no change of default foreground or background..</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9hvt30": {"author": "Zardotab", "authorId": "t2_8w6vzon", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738003169.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1738003762.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9hvt30", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m996o9d", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9hvt30/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9abw1s", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "BeenThereDoneThat. One of the biggest problems with no-code platforms is longer-term support. When the people who made an app leave, somebody has to come in to figure out what was done to migrate or upgrade something. Often **amateurs factor & normalize poorly**, and don't know how to document. Thus, these apps take longer to understand and update than a real platform.\n\nFurther, vendors tend to drop these tools at whim, leaving an org high and dry.\n\n**Penny-Wise-Pound-Foolish.**\n\nMS Power Tools has a designer UI very similar to no-code tools I saw in the 1990's. There is nothing revolutionary about Power Tools such that if their 1990's counter-parts fell out of favor, why would Power Tools not suffer the same fate? MS dropped another RAD tool called InfoPath, creating a mess at our org. (Power-Tools has other annoyances I won't go into here.)\n\nIf your org really wants to go no-code despite warnings, then File Maker Pro has proven to be relatively stable. It may cost more up front than Power Tools (bundled), but likely worth it.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>BeenThereDoneThat. One of the biggest problems with no-code platforms is longer-term support. When the people who made an app leave, somebody has to come in to figure out what was done to migrate or upgrade something. Often <strong>amateurs factor &amp; normalize poorly</strong>, and don&#39;t know how to document. Thus, these apps take longer to understand and update than a real platform.</p>\n\n<p>Further, vendors tend to drop these tools at whim, leaving an org high and dry.</p>\n\n<p><strong>Penny-Wise-Pound-Foolish.</strong></p>\n\n<p>MS Power Tools has a designer UI very similar to no-code tools I saw in the 1990&#39;s. There is nothing revolutionary about Power Tools such that if their 1990&#39;s counter-parts fell out of favor, why would Power Tools not suffer the same fate? MS dropped another RAD tool called InfoPath, creating a mess at our org. (Power-Tools has other annoyances I won&#39;t go into here.)</p>\n\n<p>If your org really wants to go no-code despite warnings, then File Maker Pro has proven to be relatively stable. It may cost more up front than Power Tools (bundled), but likely worth it.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m996o9d": {"author": "pjmlp", "authorId": "t2_755w5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737893780.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m996o9d", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93h5j8", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93blxx", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m996o9d/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9hvt30", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Even older here, you are forgetting the COBOL wave, where it was designed such that managers could read the code, and the 4GL wave of the late 80s.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Even older here, you are forgetting the COBOL wave, where it was designed such that managers could read the code, and the 4GL wave of the late 80s.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93h5j8": {"author": "stereoagnostic", "authorId": "t2_5q9gb", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737816395.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93h5j8", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94b1j5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93h5j8/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m996o9d", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 128, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "This perfectly explains why I hate Salesforce.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>This perfectly explains why I hate Salesforce.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94b1j5": {"author": "dudeman209", "authorId": "t2_3lxlb", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825385.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94b1j5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94yqt7", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93h5j8", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94b1j5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93h5j8", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 33, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It\u2019s the worst product out there.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It\u2019s the worst product out there.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94yqt7": {"author": "jl2352", "authorId": "t2_11g67p", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737832177.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94yqt7", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9596ox", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94b1j5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94yqt7/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94b1j5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 28, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It\u2019s the worst until you try everything else. There are good reasons why everyone eventually migrates to it, and rarely migrates off.\n\nThat said I\u2019d seriously resign if I was asked to work on integrating with certain bits of Salesforce. Some of their products, like Pardot, are utter dogshit. It leaves you pretty surprised how bad it is.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It\u2019s the worst until you try everything else. There are good reasons why everyone eventually migrates to it, and rarely migrates off.</p>\n\n<p>That said I\u2019d seriously resign if I was asked to work on integrating with certain bits of Salesforce. Some of their products, like Pardot, are utter dogshit. It leaves you pretty surprised how bad it is.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9596ox": {"author": "Breaking-Away", "authorId": "t2_aoaq1", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737835251.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9596ox", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98og3y", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94yqt7", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9596ox/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94yqt7", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 12, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I hate developing inside salesforce but externally integrating with it has actually been pretty painless in my experience.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I hate developing inside salesforce but externally integrating with it has actually been pretty painless in my experience.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98og3y": {"author": "wardrox", "authorId": "t2_320iv", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737883007.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1738006602.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98og3y", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9i2vmg", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94yqt7", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98og3y/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9596ox", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 6, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I've never seen vendor lock-in quite like Salesforce. They build their tech so awkwardly they can upsell their own developers. Zero hope of a clean migration to anything else down the line. And the contracts they use are so intense I've seen them bankrupt companies who tried to change their mind after realising what they agreed to was wrong (non-tech manager upsold from Heroku by a non-tech SF sales guy... it was grim).", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I&#39;ve never seen vendor lock-in quite like Salesforce. They build their tech so awkwardly they can upsell their own developers. Zero hope of a clean migration to anything else down the line. And the contracts they use are so intense I&#39;ve seen them bankrupt companies who tried to change their mind after realising what they agreed to was wrong (non-tech manager upsold from Heroku by a non-tech SF sales guy... it was grim).</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9i2vmg": {"author": "Zardotab", "authorId": "t2_8w6vzon", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738005139.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9i2vmg", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9bjmb6", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m98og3y", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9i2vmg/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98og3y", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "\"We married the devil because everyone else was marrying the devil, so it looked like the safe choice...\"", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>&quot;We married the devil because everyone else was marrying the devil, so it looked like the safe choice...&quot;</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9bjmb6": {"author": "_Pho_", "authorId": "t2_yocp1", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737921006.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9bjmb6", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9h7325", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94yqt7", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9bjmb6/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9i2vmg", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "They rarely migrate off bc migrations are massive and expensive and having an operational platform is more important than bells, whistles, good data arch, or good dx", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>They rarely migrate off bc migrations are massive and expensive and having an operational platform is more important than bells, whistles, good data arch, or good dx</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9h7325": {"author": "R0b0tJesus", "authorId": "t2_12954s", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737996318.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9h7325", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m960ihh", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94b1j5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9h7325/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9bjmb6", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There are two kinds of software. The kind people hate, and the kind nobody uses.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There are two kinds of software. The kind people hate, and the kind nobody uses.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m960ihh": {"author": "MagicWishMonkey", "authorId": "t2_5ejj", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737843643.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m960ihh", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94vnhn", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93h5j8", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m960ihh/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9h7325", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There are a lot of flaws but the underlying platform is pretty impressive. \n\nA year or so ago I got voluntold to oversee a new enterprise systems tower (previously I was in the traditional software engineering/architecture space) and I absolutely hated dealing with Mulesoft for the first 6 months or so but after a point the value prop became more obvious. The licensing costs are ridiculous, but once you factor in the savings from not having to pay for DevOps to set up and babysit a bunch of infrastructure/cicd pipelines, and all the monitoring and logging, etc. it starts to look a bit better.\n\nI'm still not the biggest fan but I can't say that there many alternatives that are significantly better.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There are a lot of flaws but the underlying platform is pretty impressive. </p>\n\n<p>A year or so ago I got voluntold to oversee a new enterprise systems tower (previously I was in the traditional software engineering/architecture space) and I absolutely hated dealing with Mulesoft for the first 6 months or so but after a point the value prop became more obvious. The licensing costs are ridiculous, but once you factor in the savings from not having to pay for DevOps to set up and babysit a bunch of infrastructure/cicd pipelines, and all the monitoring and logging, etc. it starts to look a bit better.</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;m still not the biggest fan but I can&#39;t say that there many alternatives that are significantly better.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94vnhn": {"author": "SpudsRacer", "authorId": "t2_5o6d40qm", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737831290.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94vnhn", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m935z8d", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94vnhn/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m960ihh", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 41, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Low/no code (aka, Fisher-Price Programming) looks cool in management demos, but as soon as things get complex enough (which is very soon), it completely falls apart. Especially the visual programming genre where the canvas becomes unruly quickly. \n\nI put \"rules-based\" frameworks like Drools in the same category.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Low/no code (aka, Fisher-Price Programming) looks cool in management demos, but as soon as things get complex enough (which is very soon), it completely falls apart. Especially the visual programming genre where the canvas becomes unruly quickly. </p>\n\n<p>I put &quot;rules-based&quot; frameworks like Drools in the same category.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m935z8d": {"author": "_predator_", "authorId": "t2_ginzx", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737812236.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m935z8d", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93aow5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m935z8d/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94vnhn", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 172, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "What's funny is that the exact same argument can be made about libraries and frameworks that abstract \"reality\" from you.\n\nJust acts as a reminder that any such decisions must be taken with care and consideration of the tradeoffs.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>What&#39;s funny is that the exact same argument can be made about libraries and frameworks that abstract &quot;reality&quot; from you.</p>\n\n<p>Just acts as a reminder that any such decisions must be taken with care and consideration of the tradeoffs.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93aow5": {"author": "ZirePhiinix", "authorId": "t2_4yd5ms", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737814067.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93aow5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93b045", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935z8d", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93aow5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m935z8d", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 38, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It really depends on why you use these abstraction tools.\n\nI've", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It really depends on why you use these abstraction tools.</p>\n\n<p>I&#39;ve</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93b045": {"author": "Feriluce", "authorId": "t2_3v1o8", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737814185.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93b045", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93kuxr", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93aow5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93b045/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93aow5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 231, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My god. He was abstracted away!", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My god. He was abstracted away!</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93kuxr": {"author": "ZirePhiinix", "authorId": "t2_4yd5ms", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817649.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93kuxr", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93zaeq", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93b045", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93kuxr/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93b045", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 24, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Exception thrown in texting.exe", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Exception thrown in texting.exe</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93zaeq": {"author": "fripletister", "authorId": "t2_4j05h", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737822024.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93zaeq", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9m0w7v", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kuxr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93zaeq/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93kuxr", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 13, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": ">.exe\n\nWell there's yer problem right there", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>.exe</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Well there&#39;s yer problem right there</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9m0w7v": {"author": "thejamibu", "authorId": "t2_tn1yb7s8", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1738057267.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9m0w7v", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93yngb", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93b045", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9m0w7v/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93zaeq", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I think what they were trying to say is that when they have used such abstractions they've", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I think what they were trying to say is that when they have used such abstractions they&#39;ve</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93yngb": {"author": "coverslide", "authorId": "t2_58rai", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737821838.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93yngb", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m945lai", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93aow5", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93yngb/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9m0w7v", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 18, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "/r/redditsniper", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p><a href=\"/r/redditsniper\">/r/redditsniper</a></p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m945lai": {"author": "jason_at_plasmic", "authorId": "t2_1hw9u31exj", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737823817.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m945lai", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94kqtp", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935z8d", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m945lai/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93yngb", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 7, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "+1. No code is just another tool to be applied at the right time. Furthermore, not all code tools are built the same. Look for tools that have flexibility as a core design goal. Bonus points for open source.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>+1. No code is just another tool to be applied at the right time. Furthermore, not all code tools are built the same. Look for tools that have flexibility as a core design goal. Bonus points for open source.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94kqtp": {"author": "WuPaulTangClan", "authorId": "t2_hp5x5bct", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737828177.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94kqtp", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93dap9", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m945lai", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94kqtp/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m945lai", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Right, they can be amazing if used for the right purpose.  Alteryx, while objectively a poorly optimized program, saves us a ton of time in the accounting world.  Sure, you can write Python for example to do the exact same thing, but it's not always available in more secure environments like a large multinational company.  It's *so* much easier for a tech savvy person with deep domain knowledge to just build processes yourself instead of having to translate complex accounting concepts to a developer.  I'm one of a small group of accountants who can actually program, and even if you build processes via code, maintainability is a big concern since no one else on my team will know how to fix things if they go wrong or update the codebase, and no one on this team likely ever will have that knowledge", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Right, they can be amazing if used for the right purpose.  Alteryx, while objectively a poorly optimized program, saves us a ton of time in the accounting world.  Sure, you can write Python for example to do the exact same thing, but it&#39;s not always available in more secure environments like a large multinational company.  It&#39;s <em>so</em> much easier for a tech savvy person with deep domain knowledge to just build processes yourself instead of having to translate complex accounting concepts to a developer.  I&#39;m one of a small group of accountants who can actually program, and even if you build processes via code, maintainability is a big concern since no one else on my team will know how to fix things if they go wrong or update the codebase, and no one on this team likely ever will have that knowledge</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93dap9": {"author": "guaranteednotabot", "authorId": "t2_mfrnq1ci", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737815036.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93dap9", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93feoa", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935z8d", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93dap9/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94kqtp", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 19, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Why use Excel when you can CSV hehe", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Why use Excel when you can CSV hehe</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93feoa": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737815786.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": "user", "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93feoa", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": true, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93lv9b", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93dap9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93feoa/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93dap9", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 13, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "[deleted]", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>[deleted]</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93lv9b": {"author": "C_Pala", "authorId": "t2_pk7qhxfy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817976.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93lv9b", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95kf2u", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93feoa", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93lv9b/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93feoa", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 26, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Easy, just use 2 excels", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Easy, just use 2 excels</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95kf2u": {"author": "NineThreeFour1", "authorId": "t2_7t4n3bh9", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737838678.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95kf2u", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95nut7", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lv9b", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95kf2u/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93lv9b", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Can't. Both files have the same name!!", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Can&#39;t. Both files have the same name!!</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95nut7": {"author": "winky9827", "authorId": "t2_ilcxx339m", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737839726.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95nut7", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m96u9y2", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lv9b", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95nut7/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95kf2u", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Double the **Excel**lence.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Double the <strong>Excel</strong>lence.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m96u9y2": {"author": "Drakeskywing", "authorId": "t2_nk63l", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737853547.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m96u9y2", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93nopc", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93lv9b", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m96u9y2/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95nut7", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "This makes me think of a blog post I saw where this guy was describing a previous company, where they discovered the column limit of MySQL, and so had to split a table into 2 to be able to have an the columns", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>This makes me think of a blog post I saw where this guy was describing a previous company, where they discovered the column limit of MySQL, and so had to split a table into 2 to be able to have an the columns</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93nopc": {"author": "mycall", "authorId": "t2_22rf5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737818558.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93nopc", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94cv1o", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93feoa", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93nopc/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m96u9y2", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 6, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "SQL too hard for boss, must do one. more. Exceeeeel", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>SQL too hard for boss, must do one. more. Exceeeeel</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94cv1o": {"author": "dakkeh", "authorId": "t2_5cavq", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825914.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94cv1o", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94j0mn", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93dap9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94cv1o/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93nopc", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Now how exactly are you going to drag and drop Miami Vice into a CSV?!", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Now how exactly are you going to drag and drop Miami Vice into a CSV?!</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94j0mn": {"author": "guaranteednotabot", "authorId": "t2_mfrnq1ci", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737827681.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94j0mn", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95o1pr", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94cv1o", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94j0mn/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94cv1o", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Doom on Excel?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Doom on Excel?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95o1pr": {"author": "winky9827", "authorId": "t2_ilcxx339m", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737839784.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95o1pr", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9619ga", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93dap9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95o1pr/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94j0mn", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 0, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Excel will become infinitely more useful if they ever drop in a general purpose modern scripting language (even just JS would be infinitely better than VBScript).", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Excel will become infinitely more useful if they ever drop in a general purpose modern scripting language (even just JS would be infinitely better than VBScript).</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9619ga": {"author": "Uristqwerty", "authorId": "t2_6lg6v", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737843886.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9619ga", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m97c5y0", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95o1pr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9619ga/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95o1pr", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It would be more familiar, but a spreadsheet is technically already a programming language. Functional, pure, and with a debugger that visually lays out nearly all of the intermediate state and supports arbitrary visual cues (via conditional formatting) for flagging when a value is interesting in one way or another.\n\nA way to instantiate a spreadsheet as a function call, that you can open up in a new window to see its internal workings would be more useful, in my opinion; sticking to the language and UI that spreadsheet users already universally know.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It would be more familiar, but a spreadsheet is technically already a programming language. Functional, pure, and with a debugger that visually lays out nearly all of the intermediate state and supports arbitrary visual cues (via conditional formatting) for flagging when a value is interesting in one way or another.</p>\n\n<p>A way to instantiate a spreadsheet as a function call, that you can open up in a new window to see its internal workings would be more useful, in my opinion; sticking to the language and UI that spreadsheet users already universally know.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m97c5y0": {"author": "winky9827", "authorId": "t2_ilcxx339m", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737859759.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m97c5y0", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m977n3n", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9619ga", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m97c5y0/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9619ga", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "A classic example from my daily flow involves the transfer of a large number of UPC codes, some of which have missing leading zeros, missing check digits, etc. As it stands, there's no clean way to fix this data in Excel native, so I have a python script that I run to do it via Polars + some helper functions.\n\nIt would be much better if I could script this into a native formula that didn't require an extension of sorts.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>A classic example from my daily flow involves the transfer of a large number of UPC codes, some of which have missing leading zeros, missing check digits, etc. As it stands, there&#39;s no clean way to fix this data in Excel native, so I have a python script that I run to do it via Polars + some helper functions.</p>\n\n<p>It would be much better if I could script this into a native formula that didn&#39;t require an extension of sorts.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m977n3n": {"author": "guaranteednotabot", "authorId": "t2_mfrnq1ci", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737858163.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m977n3n", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93pe7r", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m95o1pr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m977n3n/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m97c5y0", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It works with Python no?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It works with Python no?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93pe7r": {"author": "BitcoinOperatedGirl", "authorId": "t2_g34rl", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819092.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93pe7r", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93tsin", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935z8d", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93pe7r/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m977n3n", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 8, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Yeah but a lot of frameworks are also genuinely terrible and effectively a sarlacc pit your codebase can never escape from.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Yeah but a lot of frameworks are also genuinely terrible and effectively a sarlacc pit your codebase can never escape from.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93tsin": {"author": "red_planet_smasher", "authorId": "t2_b2giw6v", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737820417.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93tsin", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93gxpl", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93pe7r", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93tsin/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93pe7r", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 6, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Yeah frameworks are a means of outsourcing your architecture to a group who has no idea of your business needs. Usually probably fine, if not even a good thing but very problematic if your needs or scale don\u2019t match the original author\u2019s vision.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Yeah frameworks are a means of outsourcing your architecture to a group who has no idea of your business needs. Usually probably fine, if not even a good thing but very problematic if your needs or scale don\u2019t match the original author\u2019s vision.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93gxpl": {"author": "larztopia", "authorId": "t2_v1y7hdc1", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737816318.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93gxpl", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94cfn8", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935z8d", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93gxpl/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93tsin", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 8, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "100%\n\n  \nWhile the article raises valid points about no-code platforms, I think its critique is overly one-sided and fails to consider tradeoffs in a balanced manner. I agree with u/Sweet_Television2685 that some of the cases sounds like fan fiction.\n\nA stronger critique would account for the diversity of no-code solutions and explore the nuanced tradeoffs between speed, cost, scalability, and long-term maintainability. Not everything within an enterprise is a complex enterprise-wide application that scales thousands of users. \n\nIt's true that complexity doesn't disappear, but gets outsourced. I just think enterprises in general knowingly outsources a lot of complexity to avoid dealing with it themselves (within software and a lot of other areas).\n\nInstead of just thinking that no-code is the \"programming equivalent of those Instagram ads promising six-pack abs in 3 minutes a day\", perhaps consider why enterprises are drawn to that model in the first place? That the need for software solutions vastly outweighs the skills and ressources available to build and maintain them.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>100%</p>\n\n<p>While the article raises valid points about no-code platforms, I think its critique is overly one-sided and fails to consider tradeoffs in a balanced manner. I agree with <a href=\"/u/Sweet_Television2685\">u/Sweet_Television2685</a> that some of the cases sounds like fan fiction.</p>\n\n<p>A stronger critique would account for the diversity of no-code solutions and explore the nuanced tradeoffs between speed, cost, scalability, and long-term maintainability. Not everything within an enterprise is a complex enterprise-wide application that scales thousands of users. </p>\n\n<p>It&#39;s true that complexity doesn&#39;t disappear, but gets outsourced. I just think enterprises in general knowingly outsources a lot of complexity to avoid dealing with it themselves (within software and a lot of other areas).</p>\n\n<p>Instead of just thinking that no-code is the &quot;programming equivalent of those Instagram ads promising six-pack abs in 3 minutes a day&quot;, perhaps consider why enterprises are drawn to that model in the first place? That the need for software solutions vastly outweighs the skills and ressources available to build and maintain them.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94cfn8": {"author": "gulyman", "authorId": "t2_an3jr", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825789.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94cfn8", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93kirq", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94cfn8/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93gxpl", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 16, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "A lot of effort was spent to make IDEs work well. Auto complete and debuggers, ect. Using no code platforms to implement things is usually a shitty experience in comparison.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>A lot of effort was spent to make IDEs work well. Auto complete and debuggers, ect. Using no code platforms to implement things is usually a shitty experience in comparison.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93kirq": {"author": "def-not-elons-alt", "authorId": "t2_mbcimnlts", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817536.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93kirq", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93s14s", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93kirq/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94cfn8", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 102, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Crap AI image, post downvoted", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Crap AI image, post downvoted</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93s14s": {"author": "InfiniteMonorail", "authorId": "t2_30skfqa1", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819902.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93s14s", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95qb1e", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kirq", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93s14s/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93kirq", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 26, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "medium too", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>medium too</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95qb1e": {"author": "Chemoralora", "authorId": "t2_xwr5i", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737840462.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95qb1e", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94byby", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93s14s", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95qb1e/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93s14s", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 5, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Not only that but paywalled", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Not only that but paywalled</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94byby": {"author": "itsdr00", "authorId": "t2_4aujy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825649.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94byby", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94y5th", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93s14s", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94byby/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95qb1e", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": -2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "What's wrong with Medium?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>What&#39;s wrong with Medium?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94y5th": {"author": "svish", "authorId": "t2_fh4zp", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737832008.0, "depth": 3, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94y5th", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m955tn4", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94byby", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94y5th/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94byby", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 10, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Everything", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Everything</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m955tn4": {"author": "itsdr00", "authorId": "t2_4aujy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737834241.0, "depth": 4, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m955tn4", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9asd2t", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94y5th", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m955tn4/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94y5th", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": -1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "You're probably thinking of the Medium from 5+ years ago. The current CEO has really improved things.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>You&#39;re probably thinking of the Medium from 5+ years ago. The current CEO has really improved things.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9asd2t": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737913397.0, "depth": 5, "deletedBy": "user", "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9asd2t", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": true, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9awga5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m955tn4", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9asd2t/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m955tn4", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "[deleted]", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>[deleted]</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9awga5": {"author": "itsdr00", "authorId": "t2_4aujy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737914541.0, "depth": 6, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9awga5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93vnjh", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m9asd2t", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9awga5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9asd2t", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "No, but they use human curation instead of algorithmic boosting now, so nobody ever sees the crap articles.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>No, but they use human curation instead of algorithmic boosting now, so nobody ever sees the crap articles.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93vnjh": {"author": "LessonStudio", "authorId": "t2_guvsa", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737820959.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93vnjh", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93mb2c", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93vnjh/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9awga5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 23, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There are no silver bullets.\n\nOccasionally, some new library or something comes along and streamlines a previously stupid complex thing.\n\nBut, nearly 100% of silver bullets have showcase problems they solve very very well. Anything else is a mountain of tech debt as you fight the framework or whatever to make what you actually need.\n\nMost of these no-code systems will make you a todo app in a heartbeat. \n\nI find that almost every single technology which survived only made things simpler, and for other things you could choose to ignore it; not fight it. vcpkg would be a perfect example. I can use it to add libraries as I choose and it works very well for most; but, I can add libraries as I always did; such as when vcpkg isn't doing well. It is a great addition to C++.\n\nCrates for rust, pip install for python, etc. All mostly work quite well. Static analysis tools baked into my IDE. They are great, but I can ignore them if I choose at almost zero cost; they don't trap me in an ecosystem. \n\nSoftware development is littered with software in a box solutions, which are all mostly dead, or clinging to life by a few retired in place losers; power builder, lotus notes, enterprise java, and many more.\n\nI would even argue most of AWS is not enhancing productivity; just a giant trap making it very hard to leave.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There are no silver bullets.</p>\n\n<p>Occasionally, some new library or something comes along and streamlines a previously stupid complex thing.</p>\n\n<p>But, nearly 100% of silver bullets have showcase problems they solve very very well. Anything else is a mountain of tech debt as you fight the framework or whatever to make what you actually need.</p>\n\n<p>Most of these no-code systems will make you a todo app in a heartbeat. </p>\n\n<p>I find that almost every single technology which survived only made things simpler, and for other things you could choose to ignore it; not fight it. vcpkg would be a perfect example. I can use it to add libraries as I choose and it works very well for most; but, I can add libraries as I always did; such as when vcpkg isn&#39;t doing well. It is a great addition to C++.</p>\n\n<p>Crates for rust, pip install for python, etc. All mostly work quite well. Static analysis tools baked into my IDE. They are great, but I can ignore them if I choose at almost zero cost; they don&#39;t trap me in an ecosystem. </p>\n\n<p>Software development is littered with software in a box solutions, which are all mostly dead, or clinging to life by a few retired in place losers; power builder, lotus notes, enterprise java, and many more.</p>\n\n<p>I would even argue most of AWS is not enhancing productivity; just a giant trap making it very hard to leave.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93mb2c": {"author": "C_Pala", "authorId": "t2_pk7qhxfy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737818117.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93mb2c", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93dzgd", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93mb2c/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93vnjh", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 56, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "The article is as lazy as the AI picture\u00a0", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>The article is as lazy as the AI picture\u00a0</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93dzgd": {"author": "IskaneOnReddit", "authorId": "t2_ckwrq", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737815281.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93dzgd", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94temn", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93dzgd/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93mb2c", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 27, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "That's a super vague article and it doesn't say much more than the title.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>That&#39;s a super vague article and it doesn&#39;t say much more than the title.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94temn": {"author": "hornless_inc", "authorId": "t2_vmrjggog", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737830646.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94temn", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m935mb9", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94temn/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93dzgd", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 5, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Yes! see thats whats killing my productivity... definitely not youtube.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Yes! see thats whats killing my productivity... definitely not youtube.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m935mb9": {"author": "Sweet_Television2685", "authorId": "t2_9m6ugurb", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737812092.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m935mb9", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93c3hr", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m935mb9/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94temn", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 19, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "hard to believe this is a true story, unless your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it, or everyone are just idiots, still, sounds like a fan fiction", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>hard to believe this is a true story, unless your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it, or everyone are just idiots, still, sounds like a fan fiction</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93c3hr": {"author": "13steinj", "authorId": "t2_i487l", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737814594.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1737827114.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93c3hr", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m943zhv", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93c3hr/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m935mb9", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 17, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There are a lot of companies that are completely dysfunctional. I work in an industry where performance is paramount, second only to numerical correctness.\n\nThe dev team benchmarked their application, and determined that they needed <XYZ> hardware. Said hardware is incredibly cheap, but not conventional for most businesses (needed one of a few consumer CPUs in a dedicated rack, and due to architecture concerns few became one).\n\nThe procurement team, even now after I have long left the company, continues to fight back over the course of over 2.5 years (is what I hear from ex colleagues).\n\nSome arguments, have various levels of merit, including stability, remote access, and replacement times upon failure. Others don't at all, and are based in a fundamental lack of understanding in how a CPU works (mistaking \"utilization\" metrics for spot-latency ones, literally taking the base clock speed and multiplying it across all cores and machines and then claiming \"but we have 3600 gigahertz of performance\", then getting what they want anyway, which is one of the massive indications of incompetence that pushed me and one other to quit).\n\nUpper management doesn't trust the dev team, but does this procurement team, because of a combination of incompetence, no CTO to block the incompetence, and this procurement team handling upper management's personal computing issues so they don't understand why they'd be wrong, despite these being completely different problems in nature [think IT help desk support vs the actual app that makes money in a datacenter somewhere].\n\nIt's not hard to believe there is no consultation. There's plenty of dunning-kruger effect morons at every company.\n\nE: spelling, and to preemptively clarify:\n\n* 3600 gigahertz was not a typo of a 3.6ghz cpu, I may be forgetting the exact number. They took dozens of cpus, multiplied that clock speed by the number of _virtual_ cores alotted, _after_ hyperthreading and over-provisioning. Besides that point, an arbitrary sum of \"gigahertz\" is not a measure of performance.\n\n* the concerns that did have merit, the dev team was willing to take on (aka IT/procurement would not be maintaining those tasks for these systems) or mitigate the relevant risks. They didn't, and don't, care. They act like they police what the business does/gets, for reasons many can't comprehend.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There are a lot of companies that are completely dysfunctional. I work in an industry where performance is paramount, second only to numerical correctness.</p>\n\n<p>The dev team benchmarked their application, and determined that they needed &lt;XYZ&gt; hardware. Said hardware is incredibly cheap, but not conventional for most businesses (needed one of a few consumer CPUs in a dedicated rack, and due to architecture concerns few became one).</p>\n\n<p>The procurement team, even now after I have long left the company, continues to fight back over the course of over 2.5 years (is what I hear from ex colleagues).</p>\n\n<p>Some arguments, have various levels of merit, including stability, remote access, and replacement times upon failure. Others don&#39;t at all, and are based in a fundamental lack of understanding in how a CPU works (mistaking &quot;utilization&quot; metrics for spot-latency ones, literally taking the base clock speed and multiplying it across all cores and machines and then claiming &quot;but we have 3600 gigahertz of performance&quot;, then getting what they want anyway, which is one of the massive indications of incompetence that pushed me and one other to quit).</p>\n\n<p>Upper management doesn&#39;t trust the dev team, but does this procurement team, because of a combination of incompetence, no CTO to block the incompetence, and this procurement team handling upper management&#39;s personal computing issues so they don&#39;t understand why they&#39;d be wrong, despite these being completely different problems in nature [think IT help desk support vs the actual app that makes money in a datacenter somewhere].</p>\n\n<p>It&#39;s not hard to believe there is no consultation. There&#39;s plenty of dunning-kruger effect morons at every company.</p>\n\n<p>E: spelling, and to preemptively clarify:</p>\n\n<ul>\n<li><p>3600 gigahertz was not a typo of a 3.6ghz cpu, I may be forgetting the exact number. They took dozens of cpus, multiplied that clock speed by the number of <em>virtual</em> cores alotted, <em>after</em> hyperthreading and over-provisioning. Besides that point, an arbitrary sum of &quot;gigahertz&quot; is not a measure of performance.</p></li>\n<li><p>the concerns that did have merit, the dev team was willing to take on (aka IT/procurement would not be maintaining those tasks for these systems) or mitigate the relevant risks. They didn&#39;t, and don&#39;t, care. They act like they police what the business does/gets, for reasons many can&#39;t comprehend.</p></li>\n</ul>\n</div>"}, "t1_m943zhv": {"author": "Sauermachtlustig84", "authorId": "t2_d625ulmf", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737823362.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m943zhv", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94a0cc", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93c3hr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m943zhv/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93c3hr", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 6, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "At one customer, we had something similar. We did data science with them and tried to simplify some automotive processes. Worked great, every Euro spend on us was matched with cost reductions of five on their side. \nTheir procurement time flipped their absolute shit that we could not provide detailed timetables and action items before starting work. They could not understand that data science like that is exploratory and while you can and should add metrics to measure success, it's impossible to plan that sort of work meticulously", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>At one customer, we had something similar. We did data science with them and tried to simplify some automotive processes. Worked great, every Euro spend on us was matched with cost reductions of five on their side. \nTheir procurement time flipped their absolute shit that we could not provide detailed timetables and action items before starting work. They could not understand that data science like that is exploratory and while you can and should add metrics to measure success, it&#39;s impossible to plan that sort of work meticulously</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94a0cc": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825082.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94a0cc", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m96swlr", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93c3hr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94a0cc/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m943zhv", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Doesn't even have to be a whole company. One or two teams that are allowed to run wild can fuck an enterprise. I'm trying to deal with it right now.\n\nMy team is being expected to take over some dead end low-code tool the business purchased, got consultants to create an app for them and now they can't get the consultants to renew at a reasonable rate or find someone else to own it. It isn't a high priority for the company because  \"its only billing\".\n\n5 years ago the Salesforce team jumped on Salesforce Einstein with out telling anyone and withdrew from enterprise warehouse initiative, killing it. \n\nEinstein didn't work, so now they're doing the same with Salesforce Datacloud while trying to kill yet another \"holy shit we can't run with everyone getting reports with different numbers\" initiative.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Doesn&#39;t even have to be a whole company. One or two teams that are allowed to run wild can fuck an enterprise. I&#39;m trying to deal with it right now.</p>\n\n<p>My team is being expected to take over some dead end low-code tool the business purchased, got consultants to create an app for them and now they can&#39;t get the consultants to renew at a reasonable rate or find someone else to own it. It isn&#39;t a high priority for the company because  &quot;its only billing&quot;.</p>\n\n<p>5 years ago the Salesforce team jumped on Salesforce Einstein with out telling anyone and withdrew from enterprise warehouse initiative, killing it. </p>\n\n<p>Einstein didn&#39;t work, so now they&#39;re doing the same with Salesforce Datacloud while trying to kill yet another &quot;holy shit we can&#39;t run with everyone getting reports with different numbers&quot; initiative.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m96swlr": {"author": "BigHandLittleSlap", "authorId": "t2_15lmsj", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737853086.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m96swlr", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93kl2b", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93c3hr", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m96swlr/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94a0cc", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Very few people understand the difference between capacity and latency, even in IT. The classic quip of \u201cyou can\u2019t have a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant\u201d is *new* to people that have worked in the field for decades.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Very few people understand the difference between capacity and latency, even in IT. The classic quip of \u201cyou can\u2019t have a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant\u201d is <em>new</em> to people that have worked in the field for decades.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93kl2b": {"author": "FatStoic", "authorId": "t2_kk1udqn", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817557.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": 1737817850.0, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93kl2b", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9887gx", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93kl2b/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m96swlr", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 10, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "> unless your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it\n\nI used to work IT. I can 100% believe that a department bought a product and only looped the techs in when it was delivered \n\nWhy? Because it happened all the time to us. \n\nUsually when they bought the thing and needed help setting it up, sometimes when the thing turned out to be expensive and they wanted to see if they could use our budget for it, and sometimes when a compliance breach occured and compliance asked us how we allowed this tool to be configured so poorly.\n\nSo, yeah. Some team trying to put some no-code automation together and stacking complexity until it blows up in their faces and then crying to the tech team to come along and unfuck it is actually wholly within the bounds of plausibility.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>unless your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>I used to work IT. I can 100% believe that a department bought a product and only looped the techs in when it was delivered </p>\n\n<p>Why? Because it happened all the time to us. </p>\n\n<p>Usually when they bought the thing and needed help setting it up, sometimes when the thing turned out to be expensive and they wanted to see if they could use our budget for it, and sometimes when a compliance breach occured and compliance asked us how we allowed this tool to be configured so poorly.</p>\n\n<p>So, yeah. Some team trying to put some no-code automation together and stacking complexity until it blows up in their faces and then crying to the tech team to come along and unfuck it is actually wholly within the bounds of plausibility.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9887gx": {"author": "Sweet_Television2685", "authorId": "t2_9m6ugurb", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737873411.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9887gx", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m938vnj", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kl2b", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9887gx/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93kl2b", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "when you put it this way, ya, sounds plausible and I did see a semblance of it happened before", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>when you put it this way, ya, sounds plausible and I did see a semblance of it happened before</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m938vnj": {"author": "brianly", "authorId": "t2_3dma0", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737813375.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m938vnj", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93gxlo", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m938vnj/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9887gx", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 8, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "You should see the authors other great works. The bio is the first thing I try to check when I open an article.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>You should see the authors other great works. The bio is the first thing I try to check when I open an article.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93gxlo": {"author": "ponchoboy", "authorId": "t2_36pft", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737816317.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93gxlo", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93kqy9", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m938vnj", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93gxlo/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m938vnj", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 5, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "My man been cranking out the articles lately\u2026", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>My man been cranking out the articles lately\u2026</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93kqy9": {"author": "RiftHunter4", "authorId": "t2_2r3fzc3l", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817612.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93kqy9", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9881xm", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93kqy9/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93gxlo", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 8, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "If anyone listened to tech teams, we'd be working fully remote with deadlines that actually made sense.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>If anyone listened to tech teams, we&#39;d be working fully remote with deadlines that actually made sense.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9881xm": {"author": "Sweet_Television2685", "authorId": "t2_9m6ugurb", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737873327.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9881xm", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93cbso", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93kqy9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9881xm/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93kqy9", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "touch\u00e8", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>touch\u00e8</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93cbso": {"author": "my_beer", "authorId": "t2_36smhl7", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737814680.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93cbso", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93ksed", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93cbso/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9881xm", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 5, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I just left a company where this was almost exactly the case.  Tiny tech team that no one listened to, leadership who thought in terms of projects, not products, and consultancies offering a 'no code' solution at a fraction of the price of a proper system.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I just left a company where this was almost exactly the case.  Tiny tech team that no one listened to, leadership who thought in terms of projects, not products, and consultancies offering a &#39;no code&#39; solution at a fraction of the price of a proper system.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93ksed": {"author": "Alan_Shutko", "authorId": "t2_kk6oc", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737817626.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93ksed", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94ak1o", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93ksed/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93cbso", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 6, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I envy your pleasant work history. I've seen this happen.\n\nIn a lot of cases, upper management doesn't trust the tech team and wants to reduce reliance on them. Any arguments that the platform won't fulfill all its promises are dismissed as sour grapes. The platform is brought in, some executive gets a promotion and is off to a job at a new company before the results come in.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I envy your pleasant work history. I&#39;ve seen this happen.</p>\n\n<p>In a lot of cases, upper management doesn&#39;t trust the tech team and wants to reduce reliance on them. Any arguments that the platform won&#39;t fulfill all its promises are dismissed as sour grapes. The platform is brought in, some executive gets a promotion and is off to a job at a new company before the results come in.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94ak1o": {"author": "[deleted]", "authorId": null, "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825243.0, "depth": 2, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94ak1o", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m99dge1", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93ksed", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94ak1o/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93ksed", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Every BI tool ever sells itself by saying its so simple everyone will generate their own reports. \n\nThe business *always* believes it and buys it. Only to realize it takes months to years of integrations and no matter how many GUIs you stick in the tool you still need someone to understand the data and what it means so most users can't generate their own reports.\n\nSo right after that contract ends they get suckered again and switch BI tools.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Every BI tool ever sells itself by saying its so simple everyone will generate their own reports. </p>\n\n<p>The business <em>always</em> believes it and buys it. Only to realize it takes months to years of integrations and no matter how many GUIs you stick in the tool you still need someone to understand the data and what it means so most users can&#39;t generate their own reports.</p>\n\n<p>So right after that contract ends they get suckered again and switch BI tools.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m99dge1": {"author": "_luci", "authorId": "t2_b4o8j", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737897027.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m99dge1", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94qn7r", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m935mb9", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m99dge1/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94ak1o", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "> your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it, (...) sounds like a fan fiction\n\nHave you worked in an enterprise environment?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><blockquote>\n<p>your procurement team doesnt consult with the tech team who is going to later on support it, (...) sounds like a fan fiction</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n<p>Have you worked in an enterprise environment?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94qn7r": {"author": "joshguy1425", "authorId": "t2_3b7ws", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737829857.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94qn7r", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m958s1y", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94qn7r/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m99dge1", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 3, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "No-code tools are just tools. Apply them to the wrong problems and you're gonna have a bad time. \n\nThey also enable people who otherwise wouldn't ever be able to get a \"proper\" system built due to politics, budgets, skill sets to automate/systematize things they realistically couldn't have without the tools. \n\nThe problem I have with posts like this is that they tend to ignore why low-code tools are popular: they make people feel good. They give non-developers a feeling of power and that feels good. It might be *better* if you could hire a development team or coordinate with some other group to analyze your processes and build \"proper\" software to solve the org's problems, but there's also a good chance nothing ever gets off the ground. \n\nBuilding software is just as much of a people problem as it is a technical problem.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>No-code tools are just tools. Apply them to the wrong problems and you&#39;re gonna have a bad time. </p>\n\n<p>They also enable people who otherwise wouldn&#39;t ever be able to get a &quot;proper&quot; system built due to politics, budgets, skill sets to automate/systematize things they realistically couldn&#39;t have without the tools. </p>\n\n<p>The problem I have with posts like this is that they tend to ignore why low-code tools are popular: they make people feel good. They give non-developers a feeling of power and that feels good. It might be <em>better</em> if you could hire a development team or coordinate with some other group to analyze your processes and build &quot;proper&quot; software to solve the org&#39;s problems, but there&#39;s also a good chance nothing ever gets off the ground. </p>\n\n<p>Building software is just as much of a people problem as it is a technical problem.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m958s1y": {"author": "jl2352", "authorId": "t2_11g67p", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737835127.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m958s1y", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m948f48", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94qn7r", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m958s1y/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94qn7r", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Right on! One of my favourite things about Zapier is I can give colleagues little extras (like an alert to show up in Slack), that they otherwise wouldn\u2019t get at all. Takes me 10 minutes, and they are eternally grateful they finally got an engineer to listen to them.\n\nI\u2019ve also seen people build whole systems on top of Zapier with Google Sheets as the UI (which was horrifying to find out).\n\nIt\u2019s all about the use case and what you are trying to achieve. Right tool for the right job and all that.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Right on! One of my favourite things about Zapier is I can give colleagues little extras (like an alert to show up in Slack), that they otherwise wouldn\u2019t get at all. Takes me 10 minutes, and they are eternally grateful they finally got an engineer to listen to them.</p>\n\n<p>I\u2019ve also seen people build whole systems on top of Zapier with Google Sheets as the UI (which was horrifying to find out).</p>\n\n<p>It\u2019s all about the use case and what you are trying to achieve. Right tool for the right job and all that.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m948f48": {"author": "dimon222", "authorId": "t2_5kpmr", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737824623.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m948f48", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94n9zw", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m948f48/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m958s1y", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "where is the article?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>where is the article?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94n9zw": {"author": "wizdomeleven", "authorId": "t2_mxp81fu", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737828901.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94n9zw", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m99cfuq", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94n9zw/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m948f48", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Rolled out Power Platform Governance model at a health insurance provider which had 1000+ access db's run by the biz because IT couldn't respond. I agree with the authors recco on using caps for protyping and simple team/dept  internal facing apps.\nBut the author doesn't talk about how lcap allows biz to remove it dependencies to automate their processes. Know it's limitations, use it to drive value with it and biz in collaboration. Modernize dev tool belts/mindsets with low/no code that can interop with pro code", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Rolled out Power Platform Governance model at a health insurance provider which had 1000+ access db&#39;s run by the biz because IT couldn&#39;t respond. I agree with the authors recco on using caps for protyping and simple team/dept  internal facing apps.\nBut the author doesn&#39;t talk about how lcap allows biz to remove it dependencies to automate their processes. Know it&#39;s limitations, use it to drive value with it and biz in collaboration. Modernize dev tool belts/mindsets with low/no code that can interop with pro code</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m99cfuq": {"author": "synkronize", "authorId": "t2_eug2z", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737896579.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m99cfuq", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9dajo2", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m99cfuq/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94n9zw", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I worked with Outsystems 10 for one of my jobs it was awful and made me depressed.\n\nIt ran like a single thread application, tons of blocking if you were doing something. \n\nCompiling/publishing? You must wait. Boohoo if you gotta publish 5 more things because of dependencies. \n\nWant to do something a little complicated? Here\u2019s this shitty interface to insert JavaScript with 0 context on how it works.\n\nNeed help? Stack overflow is useless you gotta look at Outsystem user posts from their community!\n\nWant to try to get a tool to make something work? You better hope some one created an addon/wrapper using a real programming language that you can add to your Outsystem project.\n\nDeploying?  This whole ass process I forget which.\n\nIirc it was contracted to them I think and they had one guy who knew how it worked best. Can\u2019t believe I heard him say \u201cthis is the future\u201d. Never again. I didn\u2019t even put 1 mention of that on my resume. I just took the things I \u201cdid\u201d using outsystems and wrote them from a code equivalent POV on my resume.\n\nWhen they set a meeting to terminate my contract I hated the job so much that I just said \u201cok\u201d and they\u2019re like \u201cany questions?\u201d And I\u2019m like \u201cnope\u201d must have been awkward for them but honestly I deserved the contract ended as I was depressed at that job and I was glad to be set free.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I worked with Outsystems 10 for one of my jobs it was awful and made me depressed.</p>\n\n<p>It ran like a single thread application, tons of blocking if you were doing something. </p>\n\n<p>Compiling/publishing? You must wait. Boohoo if you gotta publish 5 more things because of dependencies. </p>\n\n<p>Want to do something a little complicated? Here\u2019s this shitty interface to insert JavaScript with 0 context on how it works.</p>\n\n<p>Need help? Stack overflow is useless you gotta look at Outsystem user posts from their community!</p>\n\n<p>Want to try to get a tool to make something work? You better hope some one created an addon/wrapper using a real programming language that you can add to your Outsystem project.</p>\n\n<p>Deploying?  This whole ass process I forget which.</p>\n\n<p>Iirc it was contracted to them I think and they had one guy who knew how it worked best. Can\u2019t believe I heard him say \u201cthis is the future\u201d. Never again. I didn\u2019t even put 1 mention of that on my resume. I just took the things I \u201cdid\u201d using outsystems and wrote them from a code equivalent POV on my resume.</p>\n\n<p>When they set a meeting to terminate my contract I hated the job so much that I just said \u201cok\u201d and they\u2019re like \u201cany questions?\u201d And I\u2019m like \u201cnope\u201d must have been awkward for them but honestly I deserved the contract ended as I was depressed at that job and I was glad to be set free.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9dajo2": {"author": "DoubleVoidPointer", "authorId": "t2_t7423ejbk", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737938820.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9dajo2", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94a06d", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m99cfuq", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9dajo2/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m99cfuq", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "\"Want to try to get a tool to make something work? You better hope some one created an addon/wrapper using a real programming language that you can add to your Outsystem project.\"\n\nAnd then the wrapper is terrible and you need to make your own one adding 2-4 weeks when it could've just been an package install on <insert modern technology here>\n\nBest one i had was spending 3 weeks to create a mobile plugin to simply alter the manifest ;/", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>&quot;Want to try to get a tool to make something work? You better hope some one created an addon/wrapper using a real programming language that you can add to your Outsystem project.&quot;</p>\n\n<p>And then the wrapper is terrible and you need to make your own one adding 2-4 weeks when it could&#39;ve just been an package install on &lt;insert modern technology here&gt;</p>\n\n<p>Best one i had was spending 3 weeks to create a mobile plugin to simply alter the manifest ;/</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94a06d": {"author": "davl3232", "authorId": "t2_ak9ny", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825081.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94a06d", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m935des", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94a06d/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9dajo2", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "No-code is good for simple stuff. Don't make me configure and deploy a react project to make a simple html template.\n\nNo-code for even medium complex stuff sucks balls.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>No-code is good for simple stuff. Don&#39;t make me configure and deploy a react project to make a simple html template.</p>\n\n<p>No-code for even medium complex stuff sucks balls.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m935des": {"author": "reallyserious", "authorId": "t2_9bhmf", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737811991.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m935des", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93n7j6", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m935des/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94a06d", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "100% truth.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>100% truth.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93n7j6": {"author": "mycall", "authorId": "t2_22rf5", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737818406.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93n7j6", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m98bce5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93n7j6/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m935des", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I don't understand why people prefer no-code platforms now that AI is writing quality code and soon, when agents are integrated, deploying and monitoring systems too.  Text files are so much easier to version control than multi-SaaS UI JSON exports.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I don&#39;t understand why people prefer no-code platforms now that AI is writing quality code and soon, when agents are integrated, deploying and monitoring systems too.  Text files are so much easier to version control than multi-SaaS UI JSON exports.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m98bce5": {"author": "Separate_Paper_1412", "authorId": "t2_llb1rxlq", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737875153.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m98bce5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m93pbn7", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93n7j6", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m98bce5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93n7j6", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 4, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Quality code for what use cases?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Quality code for what use cases?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m93pbn7": {"author": "darkapplepolisher", "authorId": "t2_3tagg", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737819070.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m93pbn7", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94c80l", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m93n7j6", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m93pbn7/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m98bce5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "It's just the latency of a few years of technology, especially when you consider the delays in large businesses in adopting new things. No-code is ready *now*.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>It&#39;s just the latency of a few years of technology, especially when you consider the delays in large businesses in adopting new things. No-code is ready <em>now</em>.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94c80l": {"author": "itsdr00", "authorId": "t2_4aujy", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737825727.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94c80l", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95la52", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94c80l/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m93pbn7", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "What's does the author mean when he uses the word \"audit\" here?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>What&#39;s does the author mean when he uses the word &quot;audit&quot; here?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95la52": {"author": "chesterriley", "authorId": "t2_38moc", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737838940.0, "depth": 1, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95la52", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94we5d", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": "t1_m94c80l", "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95la52/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94c80l", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 2, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "There are all sorts of certifications that management might want to have for their software, so that customers trust using it.\n\ne.g. ISO9000", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>There are all sorts of certifications that management might want to have for their software, so that customers trust using it.</p>\n\n<p>e.g. ISO9000</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94we5d": {"author": "nelmaven", "authorId": "t2_76g93", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737831500.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94we5d", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m956rye", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94we5d/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95la52", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "In my job I mostly create reusable components for other developers in a low-code platform and, what kills my productivity is how slow and bloated the platform is.\u00a0\n\n\nSometimes I just do it locally on my computer (it's basically web components in a sense) first, just to plan and test how to solve the problem, because it is so much faster to iterate than on the low code platform.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>In my job I mostly create reusable components for other developers in a low-code platform and, what kills my productivity is how slow and bloated the platform is.\u00a0</p>\n\n<p>Sometimes I just do it locally on my computer (it&#39;s basically web components in a sense) first, just to plan and test how to solve the problem, because it is so much faster to iterate than on the low code platform.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m956rye": {"author": "dregan", "authorId": "t2_2t1oh", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737834526.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m956rye", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95gmq5", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m956rye/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m94we5d", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Always has been", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Always has been</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95gmq5": {"author": "lykwydchykyn", "authorId": "t2_9lkqk", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737837527.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95gmq5", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95goxq", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95gmq5/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m956rye", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Abstractions leak?  Say it ain't so!", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Abstractions leak?  Say it ain&#39;t so!</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95goxq": {"author": "thetoigo", "authorId": "t2_4h9sc", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737837546.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95goxq", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95sdgt", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95goxq/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95gmq5", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Besides all of the very valid technical points here on low code platforms, I just can't fathom another SaaS cost on a balance sheet where you don't need it and you wouldn't have that cost using typical programming languages.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Besides all of the very valid technical points here on low code platforms, I just can&#39;t fathom another SaaS cost on a balance sheet where you don&#39;t need it and you wouldn&#39;t have that cost using typical programming languages.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95sdgt": {"author": "voronaam", "authorId": "t2_3ys46", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737841095.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95sdgt", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m95zdku", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95sdgt/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95goxq", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "I hope the idea behind Forth has a revival. The idea was that programs are like dictionaries - function name is a word and what follows is its definition. That way you only ever need to define \"padLeft\" once, and as you keep expanding the \"vocabulary\" eventually any new program would be just a short definition of its function. You just need to keep all the definitions in one big library and keep expanding it with every new program written. Eventually writing a new program should be as easy as writing a wikipedia article of what that program does.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>I hope the idea behind Forth has a revival. The idea was that programs are like dictionaries - function name is a word and what follows is its definition. That way you only ever need to define &quot;padLeft&quot; once, and as you keep expanding the &quot;vocabulary&quot; eventually any new program would be just a short definition of its function. You just need to keep all the definitions in one big library and keep expanding it with every new program written. Eventually writing a new program should be as easy as writing a wikipedia article of what that program does.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m95zdku": {"author": "Ok-Hunter-7702", "authorId": "t2_ogdad5dgu", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737843283.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m95zdku", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m96u615", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m95zdku/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95sdgt", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Now replace no-code with LLM-generated code?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Now replace no-code with LLM-generated code?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m96u615": {"author": "lt_Matthew", "authorId": "t2_amoqgye", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737853511.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m96u615", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9awciq", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m96u615/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m95zdku", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Is it ironic that the article cover is ai generated?", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Is it ironic that the article cover is ai generated?</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9awciq": {"author": "Lifecycle_Software", "authorId": "t2_tcf2typ0g", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737914511.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9awciq", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m9cdcn3", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9awciq/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m96u615", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Coding standards and documentation with links is key.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Coding standards and documentation with links is key.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m9cdcn3": {"author": "toooskies", "authorId": "t2_xu4at", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737929153.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m9cdcn3", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": {"id": "t1_m94w10l", "type": "comment"}, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m9cdcn3/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9awciq", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 1, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "Low-code and no-code environments are good for one thing: solving problems that they are designed to solve. Plugging things directly into other things.\n\nUnfortunately as soon as the scenario gets more difficult, you need to learn how to code in the low-code environment, which is usually harder than in a regular code environment.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>Low-code and no-code environments are good for one thing: solving problems that they are designed to solve. Plugging things directly into other things.</p>\n\n<p>Unfortunately as soon as the scenario gets more difficult, you need to learn how to code in the low-code environment, which is usually harder than in a regular code environment.</p>\n</div>"}, "t1_m94w10l": {"author": "RedPandaDan", "authorId": "t2_f770s", "collapsed": false, "collapsedReason": null, "collapsedBecauseCrowdControl": null, "collapsedReasonCode": null, "created": 1737831399.0, "depth": 0, "deletedBy": null, "distinguishType": null, "editedAt": null, "gildings": null, "goldCount": 0, "id": "t1_m94w10l", "isAdmin": false, "isDeleted": false, "isGildable": false, "isLocked": false, "isMod": false, "isOp": false, "isSaved": false, "isStickied": false, "isScoreHidden": false, "next": null, "parentId": null, "permalink": "/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/m94w10l/", "prev": {"id": "t1_m9cdcn3", "type": "comment"}, "postAuthor": null, "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "postTitle": null, "score": 0, "sendReplies": true, "subredditId": "t5_2fwo", "voteState": 0, "bodyMD": "The big thing that these are used to solve is the bureaucracy. Give them a fancy meaningless name like \"Robot Process Automation\" and you'll fill the heads of nontechnical management types with dreams of process improvement without being stuck trying to negotiate Dev budgets and having to overcome Wally Reflectors.\n\nShadow IT is implemented by those with domain knowledge and is custom built to the users exact requirements, nothing else comes close. So long as companies are infested with IT security or Change Management losers who balk at the idea of computers being used to run software that'll be the case, so you might as well let the software out of the shadows and into tools like these.", "body": "<div class=\"md\"><p>The big thing that these are used to solve is the bureaucracy. Give them a fancy meaningless name like &quot;Robot Process Automation&quot; and you&#39;ll fill the heads of nontechnical management types with dreams of process improvement without being stuck trying to negotiate Dev budgets and having to overcome Wally Reflectors.</p>\n\n<p>Shadow IT is implemented by those with domain knowledge and is custom built to the users exact requirements, nothing else comes close. So long as companies are infested with IT security or Change Management losers who balk at the idea of computers being used to run software that&#39;ll be the case, so you might as well let the software out of the shadows and into tools like these.</p>\n</div>"}}, "features": null, "moreComments": {}, "postFlair": {"t5_2fwo": {"displaySettings": {"isEnabled": true, "position": "right"}, "permissions": {"canAssignOwn": false}, "templates": {}, "templateIds": []}}, "postMeta": null, "posts": {"t3_1i9mt78": {"id": "t3_1i9mt78", "numComments": 150, "created": 1737811274000, "score": 440, "distinguishType": null, "isLocked": false, "isStickied": false, "thumbnail": {"url": "default", "width": 140, "height": 140}, "title": "No-Code Platforms Are Secretly Killing Your Productivity: The Enterprise Efficiency Trap You Can\u2019t\u2026", "author": "TerryC_IndieGameDev", "authorId": "t2_6n68iiaj", "authorIsBlocked": false, "domain": "medium.com", "postId": "t3_1i9mt78", "upvoteRatio": 0.81, "numDuplicates": 0, "discussionType": null, "viewCount": 0, "goldCount": 0, "isArchived": false, "contestMode": false, "gildings": null, "postCategories": null, "suggestedSort": null, "belongsTo": {"id": "t5_2fwo", "type": "subreddit"}, "flair": [], "hidden": false, "saved": false, "isGildable": false, "isMediaOnly": false, "isSponsored": false, "isNSFW": false, "isMeta": false, "isSpoiler": false, "isBlank": false, "sendReplies": true, "voteState": 0, "permalink": "https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1i9mt78/nocode_platforms_are_secretly_killing_your/", "events": [], "eventsOnRender": [], "callToAction": null, "domainOverride": null, "impressionId": null, "isSurveyAd": null, "impressionIdStr": null, "isCreatedFromAdsUi": false, "adSupplementaryText": null, "adPromotedUserPostIds": [], "subcaption": null, "media": null, "preview": {"url": "https://external-preview.redd.it/sU_yW9PX0OiMd4hpgGleyoJUxu5FbleBy_PC4FHfxns.jpg?auto=webp&s=2e1131ad1c3ef230f71b2c964a5e0cd3e88e9035", "width": 800, "height": 800}, "crosspostRootId": null, "crosspostParentId": null, "numCrossposts": 0, "isCrosspostable": true, "liveCommentsWebsocket": "wss://k8s-lb.wss.redditmedia.com/link/1i9mt78?m=AQAAMFTEZ73Kd3LMJGfNhFbyah1u9JIuPJi8L4LvHJtfa2gc9lKQ", "source": {"displayText": "medium.com", "url": "https://medium.com/@terrancecraddock/no-code-platforms-are-secretly-killing-your-productivity-the-enterprise-efficiency-trap-you-cant-436ac9a0ce0e?sk=21816c666e00d147e597c387978e3811", "outboundUrl": "https://out.reddit.com/t3_1i9mt78?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2F%40terrancecraddock%2Fno-code-platforms-are-secretly-killing-your-productivity-the-enterprise-efficiency-trap-you-cant-436ac9a0ce0e%3Fsk%3D21816c666e00d147e597c387978e3811&token=AQAAwBDDZ3iUQF8tT5vGn7AeiCIeoBFJ2WKr502Sy3OASb5nQ1tj&app_name=web2x", "outboundUrlExpiration": 1740837056000, "outboundUrlCreated": 1740833456000}, "isOriginalContent": false, "contentCategories": null, "isScoreHidden": false}}, "profiles": {}, "subreddits": {"t5_2fwo": {"displayText": "r/programming", "id": "t5_2fwo", "isQuarantined": false, "isNSFW": false, "name": "programming", "whitelistStatus": "no_ads", "wls": 6, "subscribers": 6755714, "url": "/r/programming/", "type": "public", "icon": {"url": "", "width": null, "height": null}, "acceptFollowers": true, "title": "programming", "communityIcon": "https://styles.redditmedia.com/t5_2fwo/styles/communityIcon_1bqa1ibfp8q11.png?width=256&s=45361614cdf4a306d5510b414d18c02603c7dd3c", "primaryColor": "#002b36", "allowChatPostCreation": false, "isChatPostFeatureEnabled": false, "freeFormReports": true, "allowPredictions": true, "allowPredictionsTournament": true}}, "preferences": null, "continueThreads": {}, "subredditAboutInfo": {"t5_2fwo": {"accountsActive": 409, "advertiserCategory": "Technology", "usingNewModmail": true, "publicDescription": "Computer Programming", "showMedia": false, "subscribers": 6755714, "userIsSubscriber": false, "userIsContributor": false, "restrictPosting": true, "restrictCommenting": false, "disableContributorRequests": false, "submitLinkLabel": "", "submitTextLabel": "", "created": 1141150769.0, "acceptFollowers": true, "userIsBanned": false, "emojisEnabled": false, "contentCategory": "", "allOriginalContent": false, "originalContentTagEnabled": false, "hasExternalAccount": false, "isCrosspostableSubreddit": true, "shouldArchivePosts": false, "allowedPostTypes": {"links": true, "images": false, "videos": false, "text": false, "spoilers": true, "polls": false, "galleries": false, "talks": false}}}, "structuredStyles": null, "userFlair": {"t5_2fwo": {"displaySettings": {"isUserEnabled": true, "isEnabled": true, "position": "right"}, "permissions": {"canUserChange": false, "canAssignOwn": false}, "applied": null, "templates": {}, "templateIds": []}}, "subredditPermissions": null}<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>47</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>47</b><br />
<!doctype html>
<html class="no-js" lang="en">

<head>
    <meta charset="utf-8">
    <meta http-equiv="x-ua-compatible" content="ie=edge">
    <title>No-Code Platforms Are Secretly Killing Your Productivity: The Enterprise Efficiency Trap You Can’t…</title>
    <meta name="description" content="">
    <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1, shrink-to-fit=no">
    <!-- Favicon -->
    <link rel="shortcut icon" type="image/x-icon" href="/assets/images/favicon.ico">

    <!-- CSS
  ============================================ -->
    <!-- google fonts -->
    <link href="https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Roboto:300,300i,400,400i,500,500i,700,700i,900" rel="stylesheet">
    <!-- Bootstrap CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/vendor/bootstrap.min.css">
    <!-- Icon Font CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/vendor/bicon.min.css">
    <!-- Flat Icon CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/vendor/flaticon.css">
    <!-- audio & video player CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/plugins/plyr.css">
    <!-- Slick CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/plugins/slick.min.css">
    <!-- nice-select CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/plugins/nice-select.css">
    <!-- perfect scrollbar css -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/plugins/perfect-scrollbar.css">
    <!-- light gallery css -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/plugins/lightgallery.min.css">
    <!-- Main Style CSS -->
    <link rel="stylesheet" href="/assets/css/style.css">

<style type="text/css">
  
  .unorder-list {
    border-bottom: 1px solid #ddd;
}
.unorder-list-content {width: 100%;     border: 1px solid #ffc107;}
.unorder-list-content p {
    padding: 5px;}
.post-time {float: right;
    font-size: 0.7em;     margin-left: auto;}

    .post-meta {    background: beige;}
</style>
</head>

<body>

      <!-- header area start -->
    <header>
        <div class="header-top sticky bg-white d-none d-lg-block">
            <div class="container">
                <div class="row align-items-center">
                    <div class="col-md-5">
                        <!-- header top navigation start -->
                        <div class="header-top-navigation">
                            <nav>
                                <ul>
                                    <li class="active"><a href="/">home</a></li>
                                    
                                
                                </ul>
                            </nav>
                        </div>
                        <!-- header top navigation start -->
                    </div>

                    <div class="col-md-2">
                        <!-- brand logo start -->
                        <div class="brand-logo text-center">
                            <a href="/">
                                <img src="/assets/images/logo/logo.png" alt="brand logo">
                            </a>
                        </div>
                        <!-- brand logo end -->
                    </div>

                    <div class="col-md-5">
                        <div class="header-top-right d-flex align-items-center justify-content-end">
                            <!-- header top search start -->
                            <div class="header-top-search">
                                <form class="top-search-box">
                                    <input type="text" placeholder="Search" class="top-search-field">
                                    <button class="top-search-btn"><i class="flaticon-search"></i></button>
                                </form>
                            </div>
                            <!-- header top search end -->

                            <!-- profile picture start -->
                            <div class="profile-setting-box">
                                <div class="profile-thumb-small">
                                    <a href="javascript:void(0)" class="profile-triger">
                                        <figure>
                                            <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-1.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                        </figure>
                                    </a>
                                    <div class="profile-dropdown">
                                        <div class="profile-head">
                                            <h5 class="name"><a href="#">Madison Howard</a></h5>
                                            <a class="mail" href="#">mailnam@mail.com</a>
                                        </div>
                                        <div class="profile-body">
                                            <ul>
                                                <li><a href="#"><i class="flaticon-user"></i>Profile</a></li>
                                                <li><a href="#"><i class="flaticon-message"></i>Inbox</a></li>
                                                <li><a href="#"><i class="flaticon-document"></i>Activity</a></li>
                                            </ul>
                                            <ul>
                                                <li><a href="#"><i class="flaticon-settings"></i>Setting</a></li>
                                                <li><a href="#"><i class="flaticon-unlock"></i>Sing out</a></li>
                                            </ul>
                                        </div>
                                    </div>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                            <!-- profile picture end -->
                        </div>
                    </div>
                </div>
            </div>
        </div>
    </header>
    <!-- header area end -->
<!-- Yandex.Metrika counter -->
<script type="text/javascript" >
   (function(m,e,t,r,i,k,a){m[i]=m[i]||function(){(m[i].a=m[i].a||[]).push(arguments)};
   m[i].l=1*new Date();
   for (var j = 0; j < document.scripts.length; j++) {if (document.scripts[j].src === r) { return; }}
   k=e.createElement(t),a=e.getElementsByTagName(t)[0],k.async=1,k.src=r,a.parentNode.insertBefore(k,a)})
   (window, document, "script", "https://mc.yandex.ru/metrika/tag.js", "ym");

   ym(55692637, "init", {
        clickmap:true,
        trackLinks:true,
        accurateTrackBounce:true
   });
</script>
<noscript><div><img src="https://mc.yandex.ru/watch/55692637" style="position:absolute; left:-9999px;" alt="" /></div></noscript>
<!-- /Yandex.Metrika counter -->
    ?>    <!-- header area start -->
    <header>
        <div class="mobile-header-wrapper sticky d-block d-lg-none">
            <div class="mobile-header position-relative ">
                <div class="mobile-logo">
                    <a href="/">
                        <img src="/assets/images/logo/logo-white.png" alt="logo">
                    </a>
                </div>
            
            
            </div>
        </div>
    </header>
    <!-- header area end -->

    <main>

        <div class="main-wrapper">
            <div class="profile-banner-large bg-img" data-bg="/assets/images/banner/profile-banner.jpg">
            </div>
            <div class="profile-menu-area bg-white">
                <div class="container">
                    <div class="row align-items-center">
                        <div class="col-lg-3 col-md-3">
                            <div class="profile-picture-box">
                                <figure class="profile-picture">
                                    <a href="/">
                                        <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-1.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                    </a>
                                </figure>
                            </div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="col-lg-6 col-md-6 offset-lg-1">
                            <div class="profile-menu-wrapper">
                                <div class="main-menu-inner header-top-navigation">
                                    <nav>
                                        <ul class="main-menu">
                                            <li class="active"><a href="#">timeline</a></li>
                                            <li><a href="#">about</a></li>
                                            <li><a href="#">photos</a></li>
                                            <li><a href="#">friends</a></li>
                                            <li><a href="#">more</a></li>
                                            <!-- <li class="d-inline-block d-md-none"><a href="profile.html">edit profile</a></li> -->
                                        </ul>
                                    </nav>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                        </div>
                        <div class="col-lg-2 col-md-3 d-none d-md-block">
                            <div class="profile-edit-panel">
                                <button class="edit-btn">edit profile</button>
                            </div>
                        </div>
                    </div>
                </div>
            </div>
            <div class="container">
                <div class="row">
                    <div class="col-lg-3 order-2 order-lg-1">
                        <aside class="widget-area profile-sidebar">
   

                            <!-- widget single item start -->
                            <div class="card widget-item">
                                <h4 class="widget-title">page you may like</h4>
                                <div class="widget-body">
                                    <ul class="like-page-list-wrapper">
                                        <li class="unorder-list">
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->
                                            <div class="profile-thumb">
                                                <a href="#">
                                                    <figure class="profile-thumb-small">
                                                        <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-33.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                                    </figure>
                                                </a>
                                            </div>
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->

                                            <div class="unorder-list-info">
                                                <h3 class="list-title"><a href="https://impacthub.ph/">Casino Plus</a></h3>
                                                <p class="list-subtitle"><a href="https://impacthub.ph/">casino plus login</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <button class="like-button active">
                                                <img class="heart" src="/assets/images/icons/heart.png" alt="">
                                                <img class="heart-color" src="/assets/images/icons/heart-color.png" alt="">
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                        <li class="unorder-list">
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->
                                            <div class="profile-thumb">
                                                <a href="#">
                                                    <figure class="profile-thumb-small">
                                                        <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-30.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                                    </figure>
                                                </a>
                                            </div>
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->

                                            <div class="unorder-list-info">
                                                <h3 class="list-title"><a href="https://b2outlets.com/">PHFun casino</a></h3>
                                                <p class="list-subtitle"><a href="https://b2outlets.com/">Claim Your Bonus</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <button class="like-button">
                                                <img class="heart" src="/assets/images/icons/heart.png" alt="">
                                                <img class="heart-color" src="/assets/images/icons/heart-color.png" alt="">
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                        <li class="unorder-list">
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->
                                            <div class="profile-thumb">
                                                <a href="#">
                                                    <figure class="profile-thumb-small">
                                                        <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-5.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                                    </figure>
                                                </a>
                                            </div>
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->

                                            <div class="unorder-list-info">
                                                <h3 class="list-title"><a href="https://www.joesharkey.com/">PHFun</a></h3>
                                                <p class="list-subtitle"><a href="https://www.joesharkey.com/#login">PHFun login</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <button class="like-button">
                                                <img class="heart" src="/assets/images/icons/heart.png" alt="">
                                                <img class="heart-color" src="/assets/images/icons/heart-color.png" alt="">
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                        <li class="unorder-list">
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->
                                            <div class="profile-thumb">
                                                <a href="#">
                                                    <figure class="profile-thumb-small">
                                                        <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-29.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                                    </figure>
                                                </a>
                                            </div>
                                            <!-- profile picture end -->

                                            <div class="unorder-list-info">
                                                <h3 class="list-title"><a href="https://www.scarthemartyr.com/">Glory Casino</a></h3>
                                                <p class="list-subtitle"><a href="https://www.scarthemartyr.com/">Glory Casino লগইন - Bangladesh</a></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <button class="like-button">
                                                <img class="heart" src="/assets/images/icons/heart.png" alt="">
                                                <img class="heart-color" src="/assets/images/icons/heart-color.png" alt="">
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                    </ul>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                            <!-- widget single item end -->
                        </aside>
                    </div>

                    <div class="col-lg-6 order-1 order-lg-2">
                        <!-- share box start -->
                        <div class="card card-small">
                            <div class="share-box-inner">
                                <!-- profile picture end -->
                                <div class="profile-thumb">
                                    <a href="#">
                                        <figure class="profile-thumb-middle">
                                            <img src="/assets/images/profile/profile-small-37.jpg" alt="profile picture">
                                        </figure>
                                    </a>
                                </div>
                                <!-- profile picture end -->

                                <!-- share content box start -->
                                <div class="share-content-box w-100">
                                    <form class="share-text-box">
                                        <textarea name="share" class="share-text-field" aria-disabled="true" placeholder="Say Something" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#textbox" id="email"></textarea>
                                        <button class="btn-share" type="submit">share</button>
                                    </form>
                                </div>
                                <!-- share content box end -->
                                <!-- Modal start -->
                                <div class="modal fade" id="textbox" aria-labelledby="textbox">
                                    <div class="modal-dialog">
                                        <div class="modal-content">
                                            <div class="modal-header">
                                                <h5 class="modal-title">Share Your Mood</h5>
                                                <button type="button" class="close" data-dismiss="modal" aria-label="Close">
                                                    <span aria-hidden="true">&times;</span>
                                                </button>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="modal-body custom-scroll">
                                                <textarea name="share" class="share-field-big custom-scroll" placeholder="Say Something"></textarea>
                                            </div>
                                            <div class="modal-footer">
                                                <button type="button" class="post-share-btn" data-dismiss="modal">cancel</button>
                                                <button type="button" class="post-share-btn">post</button>
                                            </div>
                                        </div>
                                    </div>
                                </div>
                                <!-- Modal end -->
                            </div>
                        </div>
                        <!-- share box end -->

                       <div class="card">
                            <!-- post title start -->
                            <div class="post-title d-flex align-items-center">

                                <div class="posted-author">
                                    <h6 class="author"><a href="/u/TerryC_IndieGameDev">TerryC_IndieGameDev</a></h6>
                                    <span class="post-time"><time datetime="2025-01-25 13:21:14">2025-01-25 13:21:14</time></span>
                                </div>

                                <div class="post-settings-bar">
                                    <span></span>
                                    <span></span>
                                    <span></span>
                                    <div class="post-settings arrow-shape">
                                        <ul>
                                            <li><button>copy link to adda</button></li>
                                            <li><button>edit post</button></li>
                                            <li><button>embed adda</button></li>
                                        </ul>
                                    </div>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                            <!-- post title start -->
                            <div class="post-content">
                              <h1>No-Code Platforms Are Secretly Killing Your Productivity: The Enterprise Efficiency Trap You Can’t…</h1>
                                <p class="post-desc">
                                    <br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>345</b><br />
                            <br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>356</b><br />


        <br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>373</b><br />

        <br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>382</b><br />
                                </p>

                                <div class="post-meta">
                                    <button class="post-meta-like">
                                        <i class="bi bi-heart-beat"></i>
                                        <span>You and 201 people like this</span>
                                        <strong>201</strong>
                                    </button>
                                    <ul class="comment-share-meta">
                                        <li>
                                            <button class="post-comment">
                                                <i class="bi bi-chat-bubble"></i>
                                                <span>41</span>
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                        <li>
                                            <button class="post-share">
                                                <i class="bi bi-share"></i>
                                                <span>07</span>
                                            </button>
                                        </li>
                                    </ul>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                        </div>



        
 <div class="col-lg-12">
                        <aside class="widget-area">
                            <!-- widget single item start -->
                            <div class="card widget-item">
                                <h4 class="widget-title">Recent Notifications</h4>
                                <div class="widget-body">
                                    <ul class="like-page-list-wrapper">


<br />
<b>Warning</b>:  Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>429</b><br />

                                    </ul>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                            <!-- widget single item end -->

                        </aside>




                    </div>



                 

                    </div>

                   <div class="col-lg-3 order-3">
                        <aside class="widget-area">
                            <!-- widget single item start -->
                            <div class="card widget-item">
                                <h4 class="widget-title">Recent Comments:</h4>
                                <div class="widget-body">
                                    <ul class="like-page-list-wrapper">

<li class="unorder-list">
              

                                            <div class="unorder-list-info">
                                                <h3 class="list-title"><a href="<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Undefined variable: comment in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
"><br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Undefined variable: comment in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>501</b><br />
</a></h3>
                                                <p class="list-subtitle"><br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Undefined variable: comment in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>502</b><br />
<br />
<b>Notice</b>:  Trying to access array offset on value of type null in <b>/home/runcloud/webapps/default-news/reddit/post.php</b> on line <b>502</b><br />
</p>
                                            </div>
                                        </li>

                                    </ul>
                                </div>
                            </div>
                            <!-- widget single item end -->

                        </aside>
                    </div>
                </div>
            </div>
        </div>

    </main>

    <!-- Scroll to top start -->
    <div class="scroll-top not-visible">
        <i class="bi bi-finger-index"></i>
    </div>
    <!-- Scroll to Top End -->

    
   

    <!-- JS
============================================ -->

    <!-- Modernizer JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/vendor/modernizr-3.6.0.min.js"></script>
    <!-- jQuery JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/vendor/jquery-3.3.1.min.js"></script>
    <!-- Popper JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/vendor/popper.min.js"></script>
    <!-- Bootstrap JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/vendor/bootstrap.min.js"></script>
    <!-- Slick Slider JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/slick.min.js"></script>
    <!-- nice select JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/nice-select.min.js"></script>
    <!-- audio video player JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/plyr.min.js"></script>
    <!-- perfect scrollbar js -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/perfect-scrollbar.min.js"></script>
    <!-- light gallery js -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/lightgallery-all.min.js"></script>
    <!-- image loaded js -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/imagesloaded.pkgd.min.js"></script>
    <!-- isotope filter js -->
    <script src="/assets/js/plugins/isotope.pkgd.min.js"></script>
    <!-- Main JS -->
    <script src="/assets/js/main.js"></script>

</body>

</html>